As a new player.....

Every time I fire up an Alkaizer steam he is always blabbering on about how PoE 2 is so much harder than PoE and how half of the players won't even beat the first boss. I don't know in which world this is considered good for casuals.

In order to judge how casual friendly PoE2 will or will not be, it would be necessary to define what "casual friendly" actually means.

Does it mean I can play the game without any care for the skill tree, gear, skills and clear all conent?
Or does it mean that I need some level of understanding of the game to play comfortably and clear all content.
Or a mix of both, perhaps minus being able to play all content?
Should there be a difficulty setting "casual" that makes the game super easy?

I think PoE1 can be played casually - that means for me you need a basic understanding of some mechanics (no resistances = bad, all damage no life = (mostly) bad and some such) to complete the campaign and do some mapping, but not pinnacle content... which is specifically not aimed at casual players.

Perhaps there should be the "Casual" option that also lets you play and win against the hardest content, no matter your skill and gear... just to vent some steam.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

In order to judge how casual friendly PoE2 will or will not be, it would be necessary to define what "casual friendly" actually means.

Does it mean I can play the game without any care for the skill tree, gear, skills and clear all conent?
Or does it mean that I need some level of understanding of the game to play comfortably and clear all content.
Or a mix of both, perhaps minus being able to play all content?
Should there be a difficulty setting "casual" that makes the game super easy?

I think PoE1 can be played casually - that means for me you need a basic understanding of some mechanics (no resistances = bad, all damage no life = (mostly) bad and some such) to complete the campaign and do some mapping, but not pinnacle content... which is specifically not aimed at casual players.

Perhaps there should be the "Casual" option that also lets you play and win against the hardest content, no matter your skill and gear... just to vent some steam.

The part I bolded above is an excellent definition of "casual," and matches my own level of play, with which I am comfortable and content, even after all these years.

I also think "casual friendly" ought to mean not weighed down by tons of accumulated rules esoterica. I am still learning new mechanics and such, and I'm pretty sure there remains a hidden iceberg's worth of knowledge as yet unknown to me. ='[.]'=

That's because GGG are awful at providing information, not because the game is that deep

I'm thinking it will be more "low floor, high ceiling" than POE1. But, we'll have to wait a few more weeks and see.

I think it'll definitely be way more accessible at the beginning. Once 5-10 leagues of content get added to the core PoE 2 game probably not.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

I think PoE1 can be played casually - that means for me you need a basic understanding of some mechanics (no resistances = bad, all damage no life = (mostly) bad and some such) to complete the campaign and do some mapping, but not pinnacle content... which is specifically not aimed at casual players.

I think this is a very fair 'definition'.

PoE 1 isn't a casual game, but it can absolutely be played and enjoyed casually - you just have to be OK with the fact that some of the content is aimed at players with more time and dedication, and that you as a casual player won't be able to experience everything.

"Casual" is a tricky term, as it's VERY subjective how people define it. A lot of casual players have a tendency to use it as an excuse (no, not everyone). A lot of hardcore/elite/dedicated have a tendency to use "casual" as a derogatory tern. Hell, even some 40/40 players consider themselves "casual". Is it time-based, dedication-based or skill-based? Well, the truth is subjective, but maybe a little bit of both.

To me, it seems like PoE 2 will be MUCH harder and more unforgiving than PoE 1 when it comes to gameplay, boss mechanics, flask mechanics etc. The hope here for many players, is that PoE 2 will be better/easier/more rewarding when it comes to how the game presents stuff to the player, I guess. How intuitive character building is, how stright forward progression is. How the game is telling you what to do and how to do it.

Only time will show, of course. But if people think PoE 2 will be an "easier game", I think they are mistaken. But maybe they'll manage to make the game harder in a more fair way, and that can be seen as more "casual friendly"

I would say Elden Ring (and souls games) are casual-friendly while PoE is not.

The Souls games teach and make better players out of casuals when they fail.

PoE doesn't do that. PoE generally requires external sources of information to get better at the game.

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JpPo2024 wrote:

Will POE2 be a little more friendly to casual players? I don't want to get hopes up to high, I really am excited to play POE2 however I am not interested in needing to spend more hours a day in a spreadsheet then actually just having fun playing the game.

Any insights by veterans?

Path of Exile 2 is still path of Exile; buildcraft is a huge, core part of the game and will generally always be easier with external tools and resources. Even if those external tools and resources are just the passive tree planner that's been available on the website here since the game's been alive. Despite all the memery on 'scuffed Ruthless" or "Path of Dark Souls", building and gearing will be critically important. If that doesn't appeal to you, then Path of Exile might not be your franchise.

That said...Grinding Gear has exerted a mighty effort to make the game dramatically more approachable and reduce the Learning Cliff effect of the first game. Information within the game client is far better organized, and you're guided to "good enough" choices in compatible skills by the new gemcutting system. Gearing is made much easier by the split between gear and skills, you can swap around and experiment with gear as well as equip upgrades freely without having to worry about being chained to the same dogshit set of gloves you've been using for twenty levels because they're currently your only 4-link. Overall, the basic playability of the game looks to have been vastly improved from a pick-up-and-go standpoint.

Heh, and frankly? The EA period and early lifetime of PoE2 will be the absolute best time to enjoy Pick Up And Go play, where you don't care about the wiki or Path of Building or the market sites or any of that jazz and all you want to do is kill monsters and take their stuff. These early days, before inevitable scope/power/mechanics bloat slowly overtakes PoE2 like an invasive fungus, will be the best the game will ever be for Pick Up And Go play.

I cannot make the judgment for you, but I can say that you're exactly the sort of player GGG is trying to do better by in the new game. Give it a spin if you can, and see if they've succeeded.

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JpPo2024 wrote:

Will POE2 be a little more friendly to casual players? I don't want to get hopes up to high, I really am excited to play POE2 however I am not interested in needing to spend more hours a day in a spreadsheet then actually just having fun playing the game.

Any insights by veterans?

I swear, the elitists and streamers have done more harm to games than the people making them.

Yes, POE is a very complex game, if you want to play it like that. It can also be satisfying for a casual, if you're willing to lower your goals. The only time you need a spreadsheet in POE is when you want to do UBER content.
I'm a casual, not super casual, just a casual gamer that plays games in general; also have a job and other shit to do. I have never used any complex POE tools to make my builds. I have taken inspiration from other people's builds but only ever copied 1 (just because I liked the concept). Just play the game at your own pace and go with the flow.

As for POE 2, it appears to go in a different direction, but won't lose the complexity; again, if you look for it.

For both games, just do your own thing....and if after a while you can't have fun, just give it up. It's not healthy to force yourself to play something you do not enjoy, no matter how good the concept looks.