Dire Torment and Perfect Agony?

Perfect agony replaces your normal damage over time multiplier with your crit strike multiplier.

Dire Torment provides increase crit chance but then +multiplier to damage over time from criticals.

So do they stack, or does perfect agony replace the benefit of getting +25 damage over time multiplier since that no longer counts as your multiplier?
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Same question with Adders Touch?

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or does perfect agony replace the benefit of getting +25 damage over time multiplier since that no longer counts as your multiplier

I think this. Not 100% certain, but I think you are describing the mechanic there.

"Perfect Agony will override your DoT multiplier with ailments to be equal to your critical strike multiplier. Other sources of DoT multiplier that apply to ailment DoT multiplier, including generic and conditional DoT multiplier bonuses, will be ignored"

With Perfect Agony, all sources of "damage over time multiplier" yield nothing.

Thanks, this seems like a flaw though. Those nodes particular favor dots from crits, but are useless with the main node for... dots from crits.

Just bad planning then?

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trixxar wrote:

Thanks, this seems like a flaw though. Those nodes particular favor dots from crits, but are useless with the main node for... dots from crits.

Just bad planning then?

No its just a totally different way to scale the DoTs. Which can help in other scenarios such as hit + ailment builds.

If you have massive sources of DoT multiplier, chaos DoT multiplier, or fire DoT multiplier, etc. then you DON'T take perfect agony. You aren't scaling on crits, but rather the DoT itself.
But if you are building specifically a crit-based build with ailments, its almost easier to gear by getting crit chance / crit multi on everything and taking Perfect Agony. You can also leverage crit damage and assassin's mark in that build.

Just like most of the other keystones on the passive tree, if you take it you are fundamentally CHANGING how the build operates on purpose. And this can definitely invalidate other nodes on the tree. CI and life/es hybrid nodes, for example. Resolute Technique while wielding a sword, yet many sword nodes have crit as another example.

I get what you're saying, but having specific dot multi on crit nodes not work with dots from critical strikes is... perhaps not the most user friendly.

^but thats only true if you take the keystone. And that's sort of the entire point of taking a keystone lol.

On its own, those other nodes make perfect sense and synergize together.

Just like how, on its own, ES and Life hybrid nodes work perfectly fine on both sides......UNLESS you have taken CI keystone which invalidates all the life nodes.

Yeah its more the wording than the design itself.

+ multiplier for dots on crits COULD be applied after the dot multiplier is set to the crit multiplier.


It says dot multi is equal to crit multi.

For instance, you have 200 dot multi, 400 crit multi, and the node which gives +25 dot multi on crit.

You crit and poison. The dot multi is set to 400. Then it adds +25 based on the passive to make it 425.

I get why it doesn't, but that's not a crazy interpretation either.

It does seem like they would be good together because they do a similar thing, it's just the mechanics aren't designed that way. It's a bit like saying why don't +max res nodes work with loreweave, they would go really well together.

I also see where you coming from, they would have good synergy if they did work together. Sure I've tried to allocate them together in a POB before looking for synergy. It seems like the option is there for people who want to do these kind of builds without lowering the hit damage of the crit portion, rather than stacking on top of Perfect agony, which is less focused on hit damage. So it adds to build diversity of slightly different builds, rather than stacking all these things into one build archetype. They could make the perfect agony stack, but it would likely be unbalanced. Most keystones (I think all) have a down side like this, you are giving up something to gain something that is useful for you to build around, rather than it stacking up.

(Side note, I had a look at the keystones on the tree, the only ones I see that don't seem to have both up and downside are Iron will/ Iron grip, where it is adding something, without loosing the initial benefit. These benefits usually don't overlap, except in some niche cases.)

That is a popular misinterpretation that happens in many different scenarios.

Consider the Masterful Form node for Slayers: "Your max endurance charges is equal to your max frenzy charges".


If you have 4 max frenzy, 3 max endurance ---> you FUNCTIONALLY have 4 max endurance.

But if you ADD a max endurance charge ----> you FUNCTIONALLY still have 4 max endurance. Thinking that an additional endurance charge would take your "new" functional max of 4 and raise it to 5 is erroneous.


It also is Mono-directional: endurance charges are ONLY modified by frenzy charge max, and not vice versa.



This is exactly the same as the wording for Perfect Agony (and other total conversions like Belegur's example): they are mono-directional.