WHY PUNISH PEOPLE FOR DYING?

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After above, what remains of "justified difficulty"? Penalty in this specific game kills desire to experiment, as you know how much will you die with new build before it gets minmaxed. It forces to avoid trying (even learning) new boss because you are at the middle of the level and have to spam barren white maps 50 times more.

Make exp penalty optional, and give the masochists their special bonuses, achievements, and badges to brag about it.

Absolutely, +1.

You know what the passive Atlas tree and the current gold mechanic have in common...? Once you gain them, you can't lose them. You only go forward. These things are the devs trying to mitigate the fact that at a certain point in the game, it takes too much time for the player to upgrade their build, which makes the gaming too boring.

My guess is, the ones that do these understand the problem, but can't confront someone above their rank - that doesn't, and won't let them take the exp penalty away. So they try to circumvent it by keeping the player always advancing in other areas to keep us interested longer.

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Echothesis wrote:

Experience is not part of a multiplayer in any way, you know that.

Lmao no way you said that.

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Echothesis wrote:

I am not affected by you getting to 100 in 23 hours, and you are not affected by me dying 3000+ times, according to console command:)

But you certainly are affected by the fact that other players who make better choices or just play better don't have to deal with the penalty, or that they do get to enjoy all content while you hit a wall thanks to your own decisions. How ironic.

Little bit less fomo helps all the time :)

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As a side note, first lvl 100 character in Settlers league appeared like 23 hours after release, a scion aurabot with 0 dps. How does that fit with all the elitist arguments of "you have to earn your levels"?:) Guy invested all into defenses using leverage of not having to invest into dps, and just walked behind his party members. Even if we all agree that exp penalty is "justified", it still doesn't work fair even from this angle.

Yes they have problems with this for sure. Having an economy where some people are playing in groups and factions an other people are playing solo. It's not as simple as going to SSF, most solo players want to interact with the economy on a somewhat level playing field and not compete with people who are buying progress or leverage group play in the way that it was especially out of control last league. There's no simple solution though. I don't think it has much to do with the xp penalties. As I said in my previous post, people were also level 97 in day 1 on SSF. I think it is more about the gap between people who are basically playing the game as a job, and other people playing casually and wanting the same results as people who are basically playing the game full time.

Death penalties have an important roll in the game. If they are removed everying becomes about dps and movement speed in the levelling process. The penalty otherwise is about 6 seconds, which means you can basically gut all defense from your build. At least to point where you are dying less than 6 times per map. That is not a good design.

Personaly MrHouston in PoE when im getting around lvl 88 i go with the "boring" safer, chill playstyle when i notice im around 40-50% exp. Get a level, then i dig into the harder stuff iv saved up as i wait to ding. Then i start falling on the floor if needed :)

All in all i think (personaly for my own sake) its ok that i loose exp, makes me stop and think about my current build state a bit. Maybe do some minor tweaks or switch around an aura and then go again to counter the current problem. I think only once have i completely redone my build since late 2011 due to running into a brick wall with the build.


I dont think the good old:

"you have run out of extra lifes. Would you like to press Continue?" (or fall down a hole)

And reset the world & boss would be a good fit for PoE.

That would end with players that can clear the map, now not loose exp at death. They just drop dead when only the boss is left. And re-clear/farm the map fully 6 times (beside the boss).



It would be a interesting league mechanic for the madness of it.

"Path of Exile Time Lords" and we rewind time on death and go again ^^


Economy would go bonkers & most of us will get banned :)




In regards to the exp loss. Maybe something in the atlas tree along the same lines of "Monsters do less DMG but have more HP/Monsters do more dmg but has less hp"

Where you "Dont loose Exp on death, but you have some other form of penelty" to not make ppl just rush if you pick it. Feel like it would have to be some crazy test period with different systems to iron a change like that out for it to fit in the core of the game.

If its even possible to find a good solution for both devs and players.



Seems like have also played alot, prolly know more then me. But for now i just think we need to deal with our own builds problems, try and find a balance betweent he slow boring, and fast fun. Until we dont fall over so much and get the work done.


Maybe a solution could be just as you can opt into the league, then select "Normal", "SSF/SSFHardcore", "Hardcore" you could pick when taking SSF to play with "No Exp on death" but by doing so your character is locked to SSF to try and avoid rushing like crazy on SSF then opt into normal. I know far to little about speed levling if this would even be a problem/effect the league race. Just trying to think outside the box if a possible change were to happen.

Or what if there was a new type of mode to play where you dont loose exp on death, but you have "Badluck" with drops, or you take extra dmg, your stats give less bonus or maybe just in general your stats are reduced. Almost like in Fromsoft games (darksouls etc) picking the Class with very low starting stats and no gear.

I dont think they would change it currently, but maybe something will change in the future :)

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SilentSymphony wrote:

Exiles, You need to accept that not everyone from the older days of gaming appreciates harsh penalties and that they are not a good thing in all cases.

1000% agree with this. I play because my son plays this game as well except he is way better than me, basically I suck and it doesn't help losing 5% xp everytime I die. From other comments I can see that there are a lot of people who agree and have quit the game because of it. Good on you for those that find it a challenge but to me, a game should be fun, I haven't played for a few days because of this xp penalty.

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mrhouston wrote:

After above, what remains of "justified difficulty"? Penalty in this specific game kills desire to experiment, as you know how much will you die with new build before it gets minmaxed. It forces to avoid trying (even learning) new boss because you are at the middle of the level and have to spam barren white maps 50 times more.

Disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. This is a PERSONAL issue, not an issue with the exp penalty.

The exp penalty is the absolute bare minimum penalty this game has to offer. It is almost entirely MEANINGLESS before you hit 95. Maybe 30m of gameplay, or even less.

If you are so turned off by losing exp that you refuse to progress in the game unless you are immortal....then that is on YOU. Lighten up a little. You aren't playing hardcore.

No one is trying a brand "new boss" at level 95.



In fact, I would argue the OPPOSITE is true. Punishment in the form of exp, a relatively benign yet noticeable punishment, ENCOURAGES experimentation. It forces you to think about how you died, how you might NOT die the next time. Without a punishment, there is no need for experimentation at all....eventually you'll get lucky and the vast majority will not change a thing and just keep throwing themselves at the challenge with no real learning.

If you quit because you lost exp due to death, you take the game way too seriously. That's "rage". If you have no interest in improving and would rather the game just offer zero challenge....play something else. Death by itself does absolutely nothing. Death with tangible consequence has meaning and drives thought and creativity.


And the kicker to all this? Everyone rails on the exp penalty, but doesn't offer any other comparable punishment. Because there IS NO comparable punishment. Exp is literally the least valuable thing the game has to offer to players, and that is where the punihsment comes from. There is no item durability and central currency that could be the punishment instead. Losing a portal is hardly a punishment because you have 6 of them. Exp is it. The least common denominator. The least obstructive possible choice they could make within the constraints of the game to offer meaning to death.

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Don't you see contradiction?:) If penalty is optional, no one takes joy from you, tune it all the way to 100% exp loss and have fun.

Bad logic. Just because someone likes to go for a run doesn't mean they want to run four marathons a day. GGG developers have provided a game that has a reasonable amount of challenge. They've even made a number of modes to allow people to play differently. People like having a challenge they can overcome. Hardcore players aren't masochist, they like being challenged. By your logic hardcore player would have more fun by turning up the difficulty so high they die instantly. That's not how it works. GGG have made a playground for people to interact with. It's not a choose your own adventure novel.

I can understand some people might want an easier version of this game, but maybe have a think why they are here asking for that and not playing other games that have these easier mechanics. Which is the game that is better than POE and why aren't you playing that game? Why do you want this game to be more like another game? Just play that game?

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Or you wouldn't want if you knew others can disable it

It might be possible for SSF. Certainly not possible for any modes that have an economy. Almost everyone will play on the lowest setting. If people want an easier version of the game that is fine, but I hate to tell you once you beat the easy version, you are going to wish there was a harder version. If you've leveled to 100 you will know that's it, suddenly you now get 0 more xp, what ever you do. Not sure why people all of a sudden are obsessed with levelling xp.

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Malpherion wrote:

Firstly, im an older person past my 60's.
My reactions are not as quick as they used to be when I was younger.
But saying that, I fail to see the point in punishing anyone with a lost of experience for dying after level 60?
Please explain the point of this.
It's supposed to be a game to enjoy playing, not getting upset because you can't beat a yellow mini-boss who regenerates faster than you can dps.
I do enjoy playing these types of games such as Diablo series and Last Epoch but neither of those 2 punish their players by deleting 5% of their hard earned experience.
Why do you? Please explain

Simple without consequences for your actions/choices, its no longer a game. The choices you make matter less, the game literally feels like a less important game.

You'll notice that pretty much without exception all the most beloved and revered "classics" are hard games... Pretty much not a single game thats widely lauded as being a goat game is considered easy. and many of them are among the hardest or at least most complex games. (in the case of strategy games this is usually the case something like Civ, Master of Orion, X-com UFO defense or Master of Magic are not hard per se just complex and deep)

The only question is how much or little consequence do you need to have in the game to make it feel important to not die. Thats going to be purely subjective.

as an older gamer myself I feel like 10% is fine, that said I don't love that it makes me avoid rippy content until I've leveled up when I'm lvl 90+ and 75% or more of the way to the next level. I don't love this because its a "gamey" behavior, a meta behavior that the design of the game encourages that is not natural or based in verisimilitude (not an authentic to life feeling RPG style behavior).

Yep agree completely with the above. It is true that people are modifying their gameplay to play risky after levelling then safe and boring when they get closer to levelling. I don't think this is great. I think the problem is less to do the xp penalty and actually not loosing xp beyond one level. I don't know what the solution to that would be, but I do think this aspect could be improved. Gameplay changing because of where the bar is upto is probably not the best design, and I think this is where some of the frustration of the people who are against death penalty is coming from. That they don't want to play safe and boring for a period of time. Not sure what the solution to that is, because removing death penalty might solve this, but it wont be good for the game in general.