T17 once again are ruining this league can GGG just discard t17 concept?

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Gopstop22 wrote:

T17 once again are ruining this league...

I don't even know how the league is ruined? For me it's the best league in ages and I only have played very few t17 maps, I have sold at least 99% of them. My mainchar is close to lvl. 100, I have more currency than I need and thanks to faustus even trading isn't a real pain anymore. So what is the problem? Ohhhh wait I see..... the "fomo" hitted you with a crit, right? ^^

I don't get how anyone whiteknights T17s, i agree they're terrible, it's not even about difficulty or those map mods... even if they'd be white and static it's still terrible.
Endgame used to be an atlas with 100+ maps (at 4/4 voidstones) with some bosses like guardian/shaper etc, endgame now are 5 maps (yikes) because obviously farming T17s is MUCH more lucrative with 400% currency mulipliers and all that stuff. 3.24 was the worst patch i've experienced

Would prefer a 50% flat nerf for player power over adding more tiers any day

But hey guess i just dont get it

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666lol666 wrote:

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Gopstop22 wrote:

T17 once again are ruining this league...

I don't even know how the league is ruined? For me it's the best league in ages and I only have played very few t17 maps, I have sold at least 99% of them. My mainchar is close to lvl. 100, I have more currency than I need and thanks to faustus even trading isn't a real pain anymore. So what is the problem? Ohhhh wait I see..... the "fomo" hitted you with a crit, right? ^^

+100

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Rikku wrote:

I don't get how anyone whiteknights T17s, i agree they're terrible, it's not even about difficulty or those map mods... even if they'd be white and static it's still terrible.
Endgame used to be an atlas with 100+ maps (at 4/4 voidstones) with some bosses like guardian/shaper etc, endgame now are 5 maps (yikes) because obviously farming T17s is MUCH more lucrative with 400% currency mulipliers and all that stuff. 3.24 was the worst patch i've experienced

Would prefer a 50% flat nerf for player power over adding more tiers any day

But hey guess i just dont get it

T16's are still perfectly valid. I have no issues with juiced T17's and still rotate into several different T16 strategies. T17s are just an extra spicy pepper in the soup.

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Rikku wrote:

I don't get how anyone whiteknights T17s, i agree they're terrible, it's not even about difficulty or those map mods... even if they'd be white and static it's still terrible.
Endgame used to be an atlas with 100+ maps (at 4/4 voidstones) with some bosses like guardian/shaper etc, endgame now are 5 maps (yikes) because obviously farming T17s is MUCH more lucrative with 400% currency mulipliers and all that stuff. 3.24 was the worst patch i've experienced

Would prefer a 50% flat nerf for player power over adding more tiers any day

But hey guess i just dont get it

"If you disagree with me, you're white knighting"

You don't provide any reasoning; you just undermine people who enjoy harder and more rewarding content than you.

They're not terrible, they're new and different. God forbid GGG adds new maps and scales rewards based on an increased viability-check. How about I just state they're the best maps ever created and if you disagree with me, you're just a hater? Logical, right?

Endgame was people running whatever maps where meta, whatever strategy was meta and whatever builds were meta, with some going their own way. That premise has not changed, they've just added new maps and given us more rewards.

You're arguing that instead of giving us new content, they should gut everyone's builds by 50%. Yes, you don't get it.

I want T18 all the way up to T20. I want content that I cannot complete, and it takes luck and skill to complete. I want bosses that are much harder than the current bosses. Artificially increasing difficulty of already existing and stale content by gutting our output and turning mobs into bullet sponges is what is actually terrible here.

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hmcg020 wrote:

I want T18 all the way up to T20. I want content that I cannot complete, and it takes luck and skill to complete. I want bosses that are much harder than the current bosses. Artificially increasing difficulty of already existing and stale content by gutting our output and turning mobs into bullet sponges is what is actually terrible here.

This this this.

I like my maps like I like my hot sauces, if you pick the scariest one, you should regret your life.

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hmcg020 wrote:

"If you disagree with me, you're white knighting"

You don't provide any reasoning; you just undermine people who enjoy harder and more rewarding content than you.

Most T17 cons have already been posted so i skipped that part, however i'll give you a short version of my main concern about them:

I enjoy uber-bosses and "hard" bosses in general, there's no point doing normal T16s anymore with introduction of T17s other than farming T17 maps and maybe divination cards because T17 not only are the gatekeeper for uber-boss fragments but also have multipliers build in for currency, maps and scarabs.
Shaper, Elder, Synth and Guardian Maps and there invitations also only lead to normal mode fragments.
So before 3.24 you had a pool of 100maps, various invitations like feared, shaper guardians etc -> everything you did was leading to "Uber-fragments" = huge variety in endgame loop.
With T17s you're stuck with 5 map layouts, if you want to do ubers there isnt anything else you can do, which is terrible design in my opinion espeically if you take SSF into account.
It's not about "people who ejoy harder content than me", i can do 100% delirium T17s but thats not the point here.

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hmcg020 wrote:

They're not terrible, they're new and different. God forbid GGG adds new maps and scales rewards based on an increased viability-check. How about I just state they're the best maps ever created and if you disagree with me, you're just a hater? Logical, right?

Indeed just a hater in its current implementation :)

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hmcg020 wrote:

Endgame was people running whatever maps where meta, whatever strategy was meta and whatever builds were meta, with some going their own way. That premise has not changed, they've just added new maps and given us more rewards.

Team "their own way" (who just copy paste and think thats fun? another thing i dont get :) ), new maps are awesome but T17s aren't just new maps, the way they added them had side-effects, huge ones in my opinion

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hmcg020 wrote:

You're arguing that instead of giving us new content, they should gut everyone's builds by 50%. Yes, you don't get it.

I want T18 all the way up to T20. I want content that I cannot complete, and it takes luck and skill to complete. I want bosses that are much harder than the current bosses. Artificially increasing difficulty of already existing and stale content by gutting our output and turning mobs into bullet sponges is what is actually terrible here.

I never said i'm against new content, that would be wild. New content isn't the problem, killing old content is
Nerfs are overdue imo but that's a different topic i guess. The reason i'm asking for it is the current power creep so current bosses/ubers can stay relevant while they keep adding new ones. I also do like harder and new content, it's the implementation in 3.24 that i'm mad about (unironically mad lol)


What the F i'd suggest you may ask? First of nerf us :) Then give back atlas keystones for ubers, make T17's drop from ubers and make them as crazy as pre-nerf with even more reward whatever, then i'd be happy. Keep adding new content like more T17 layouts&Bosses, Atlas expansion with new stuff similar to elder etc while keeping the Atlas with 100+maps relevant including invitations, add T17 invitations, add this and add that.
I know i know, it won't happen :)

t17's are terrible for many reasons but map mods are the biggest one for me. if i pick easy mods i can do them deathless but if i dont pay close attention and there is one or two bad mods in there then the map is bricked. map mods shouldn't be this harsh. in t16's map mods have almost zero effect. i can blindly run almost any map mod.

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

t17's are terrible for many reasons but map mods are the biggest one for me. if i pick easy mods i can do them deathless but if i dont pay close attention and there is one or two bad mods in there then the map is bricked. map mods shouldn't be this harsh. in t16's map mods have almost zero effect. i can blindly run almost any map mod.

Is every sort of player skill check "terrible"?
T17 maps exist to encourage you to build a good character and not just run around on day 3 shoelace budget in hopes to accomplish the same performance as someone who's able to run id&go t17 maps thanks to a better geared build.