6000 hours of Melee Scientific Expert Tells You the Truth- Melee changes ACTUALLY 100% suck

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Enough options to transfer mana to life cost, don't see the issue.. either have enough spare mana / invest in RMR or convert cost.

Right now all that you need is 90 free mana, which is about 9%, with just 1 mana leech affix on a rare jewel - this will not be the case anymore in 3.25. Whatever you want to achieve definitely needs a lot more, which will eat your DPS / passives. Unless you can give an example of something less than that.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Enough options to transfer mana to life cost, don't see the issue.. either have enough spare mana / invest in RMR or convert cost.

these options cost A LOT of passives. like seriously, you are expected to spend 5+ passives on non-melee shit (and two ring prefixes, these are mandatory now) more than now. it is a direct nerf

any elemental attack build REQUIRES lifetap (aka - just lost 15% more damage using shit gem) or anoint clever thief or travel to duelist. all these 3 are DIRECT nerfs to what we have now (and you have to keep significant %mana unreserved to have buffer for leech)

people ALREADY invest into RMR, there is no RMR that melee players dont take (and if you havent seen - melee aura cluster has been nerfed)


these changes are harsh and serious nerfs that people who dont play melee do not understand.

AT BEST you are expected to replace one good support with lifetap. 300% cost multiplier..

at worst youve just lost one entire aura/reservation, good anoint and several passives

it is intentional and serious nerf - there was a reason melee had flat cost structure, it was a very good reason. now we are back with this garbage situation when melee has bigger issues with mana sustain than casters AGAIN. we were in this situation before. 95% characters used Blood Magic in their links.


i wonder how long will it take for people to realise that this 'melee revolution' is in fact PR stunt and melee is STILL bad for sanctums, ubers, delve etc etc. entire archetype invalid by design, great job

Kind of funny how a lot of people are solving their mana problems are blood magic.

further math on this mana situation:

12 base mana with 2*140 supports, 2*130 supports and one 120 support: ~50 mana (rounding is funky)

Life Mastery gives 15% cost life
Attack Mastery gives 20% cost life - but most players dont take such cluster so it is a cost in its entirety. archers get +1 arrow and melee gets 'onslaught on stance change' garbage
(optional) 20% reduced mana cost at 20 rage Notable


around Marauder area:
there are 2 'reduced mana costs with attack' clusters (3 passives each, 2 masteries)

Cannibalistic Rite (8 + 8 + 15% reduced mana cost, 10% cost life)
Spirit of War (8 + 12 + 15% reduced mana cost, mana leech)
+ 2 masteries (12% RMR, 10% reduced mana cost)


near Templar area:

Tireless (life/cost), 4 passives: good life + 12% reduced generic cost (might double dip, no idea)


this is all that can be realistically taken. reduced mana cost clusters == 8 passives (-3 because we already took mana for RMR). 5 passives without travel
attack mastery: 4 passives. all of them are bad. if playing strikes you HAVE to take one for +strike mastery. so strike build needs TWO.

life mastery: 0 (we take it already)

picking ALL of it https://poeplanner.com/AwAAAwAhAAEDABkA43fYxtcvDXhoeY2tYdlscvK1GsB1HCHSv44EwUUbsk9GbB5rJ9xuqc2eCTJmpA1Xfs8AAAAABAArEDaWGQtr_XP_Vy-1ISxMBAAA______________________8AAAMAAAADAP____________88AAAAABQAH4sIAAAAAAAAAwMAAAAAAAAAAAA=
brings us to:
45% cost as life
10% reduced cost of skills
66% reduced cost of attacks

to get to where we are now it takes 8+ passives excluding travel nodes

it is 8% of entire passive tree budget. just to fix what GGG 'fixed' this patch. it is absolutely huge nerf. more pressure on mana -> issues with automation, pressure on sockets (mandatory lifetap). and blood magic keystone is for casters. for melee it is pure untreated sewage

i start to realise why people are not making a noise: most people havent played melee in years and have no real plans of doing so. so they dont care enough to check, but 'bought' the 220->550% story.

the few people that actually want to give melee a try this league is going to smash face-first into a wall of hurt. because mana is not the biggest problem

Glad I'm not the only one looking deeper into the mana issue....people don't realize how big a deal this can be for melee. But Pashid knows magic no one else does that renders this change non-existent.

Spirit of war. After you get a single cluster, fuel the fury.

Enduring mana flask as well.

Not gonna be any mana issues.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Spirit of war. After you get a single cluster, fuel the fury.

Enduring mana flask as well.

Not gonna be any mana issues.

There are certainly ways to combat the mana issues. That isn't quite what's in dispute.

The problem is the associated cost of those solutions. On builds that are already vastly underperforming everything else in the game.

You just described losing: an entire cluster of passives, a flask slot, and a cluster notable. Just to function. And even then, you would still need to babysit that mana flask because melee requires shouts and other supplementals which require mana.

Sure there won't be any mana issues anymore....there also won't be a build anymore.


To ArtCrusade's points about blood magic / life cost of skills: is that really the solution we are required to have? All melee builds are essentially now required to convert mana to life cost? That's a bit unfair, especially considering the massive multipliers on the conversions (which compound the increases in base mana cost).

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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Mashgesture wrote:

Spirit of war. After you get a single cluster, fuel the fury.

Enduring mana flask as well.

Not gonna be any mana issues.

There are certainly ways to combat the mana issues. That isn't quite what's in dispute.

The problem is the associated cost of those solutions. On builds that are already vastly underperforming everything else in the game.

You just described losing: an entire cluster of passives, a flask slot, and a cluster notable. Just to function. And even then, you would still need to babysit that mana flask because melee requires shouts and other supplementals which require mana.

Sure there won't be any mana issues anymore....there also won't be a build anymore.

What? not all them combined you goof. The cluster you arent losing damage thats providing damage, fuel the fight/feed the fury is one of the most popular large cluster setups in the game for hit builds.

You're gonna want fuel the fight feed the fury anyways on a large cluster, pick up martial prowess as the third probably. Thats for late game.

Enduring mana flask you can fit if you really need it.

Spirit of war is for the start, drop it after you dont need it. Or keep it if you want the mana mastery node for reservation(most likely).

^you seriously underestimate the mana costs of melee...you WILL need all of them combined to sustain your mana. You don't need multiple sources of leech, but you do need multiple sources of reduction, conversion, and recovery on top of leech.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

^you seriously underestimate the mana costs of melee...you WILL need all of them combined to sustain your mana. You don't need multiple sources of leech, but you do need multiple sources of reduction, conversion, and recovery on top of leech.

Please I beg you, go look at what fuel the fight/feed the fury/martial prowess does. Since you think you are

"Losing a large cluster of passives"


And if your mana is THAT BAD of an issue, put in lifetap support. You aren't socket starved at all for melee anymore(bye bye totems). And we just got a huge bonus to all our life modifiers.