Are you a fan of the sword Oni-Goroshi? -- 01/10/24: wow, a Blackloak-inspired essay!

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kolyaboo wrote:

I'll check it out. I'm not a prolific fantasy reader; Howard, Lieber, and some newer writers I can't remember. I read a lot. Different genres.

I hated Wheel of Time.

Read 2 pages on Amazon and the style (just from that short sample) reminded me of Thomas Harris. Don't get mad! Not meant as an insult; he's better than some think. His style isn't for everyone.

Is it hard to get a book published nowadays? I have one done, years ago, and several in various states of completion though I don't write much anymore. I did a lot at university.

I also hated WoT man. The guy had some crazy cool ideas but then he married his editor and she became his worst enabler. Made it to book 4 and was *done* with all the shallow interpersonal conflicts and hair tugging.

Thomas Harris? I have been compared to worse. Big fan of Silence and Red Dragon, but that's all I've read from him. As for that sample, I need some way of clarifying the whole book isn't written in that style. I'd go mad trying to maintain that level of language, and readers don't deserve to be subjected to it.

The only reason I published was because someone else here did. They showed me how easy it was to turn a manuscript into an actual book, so I was like eh, fuck it, why not. The REAL challenge is making sure it passes as a book in the eyes of the general public. That's where most serious self-publishers employ editors, cover artists, alpha readers, proof-readers, beta readers...PR...all the things a traditional publishing house would provide to an author they've decided they can market.

I am blessed with a few really talented artist friends who generally don't like my style either but really like that I've decided to find those who do. I do not pay them 'mates rates' however; full pay for their full work. As for editing, I am guilty of doing that myself but only with a lot of test reading with others from draft to draft.

Very few serious writers will use genAI at any stage of their production. It's banned in most of the writing circles I've found, some of which have bestselling authors chatting away with indies like myself. I do know someone, through my partner, who self-pubbed a series of furry sci fi romance novels who uses genAI for his covers. He's successful but not very good. So it goes.

You do not self-publish for a career unless you can let go of all expectations and are extremely good at marketing. Or you're like extremely good and/or lucky (see Andy Weir). It's mostly just to share and say, 'I did a thing'. It's also great for maintaining control over your own work. Sign up with a traditional publisher and you can expect to have to argue about the cover design, the editing, the marketing style, the launch...and wait. And wait. A self-pubber can launch when ready; a trad pubber is probably going to be in the pipeline for a year+ between final draft and launch.

So in short, it's really easy to publish a book and really hard to sell it as a book beyond the friends/family barrier. I considered myself a success when I broke that, although a lot of my early sales were indeed Exiles who liked my sword and/or just liked me I guess. :)

Once I sold to a stranger, once I had reviews on amazon from people I 100% do not know in any way, I was able to admit I didn't do this just for vanity. Vanity publishing is when you pay to have someone else do all the work -- it's considered a scam these days. Self-publishing just makes you the publisher. you set up a business name. Get ISBNs. Source printing methods. All that. It's still fairly hobby level for me but when I get a good review, oh it's so worth it.

When I get a bad review it's still worth it, but I haven't gotten a *really* bad one yet. Most negative has been 'some hits, some misses, ambitious, needs refinement'. Which I took very much to heart with book 2. :)

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Elevator pitch the first book at me then...

Blackloak: come for the poor young villager in fantasy China getting a magic sword that talks to him, stay for the possibility the poor young villager isn't any of those three things, and the sword is not talking at all.

i m no author or anything but i m preeetty sure you meant blackcloak

nice possible twist idea tho.

anyway curious question. how did you start self publishing your books?

i have a fleeting interest in writing. do you make/ write the book, convert to pdf and sell on amazon or something?

Fuck me, I actually found that typo in the second book. Jesus.

I did convert the doc to pdf at one point to print a draft for someone but overall I prefer to go doc-->epub (I use Calibre to make, ReadEra to review)--> edit the shit out of the doc-->Kindle Create to convert the final doc to kindle format (including a table of contents)-->upload to KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing, formerly createspace I think).

I mean this is all nuts and bolts. The vast majority of the time is spent just writing and researching...and thinking. A lot of thinking.

I write quite coherently very quickly (as is fairly obvious but how much I post here) but actual writing-writing requires SO much pre-thinking for me. By the time I open a word doc to do anything more than just make notes, I have a lot to work with.

As for paperback, that requires a different word doc because it needs the Amazon paperback guttering/formatting, so when I'm writing and editing I stick to one document (usually the one aimed at ebook) and then paste the text of the final version into a paperback formatted document (usually the book I published already). So for paperback book 2, I just used my paperback book 1 doc, changed the pagination and the sections, and done. Only takes like three or four...full...days...of...messing...about...

And THEN after you've added the page numbers and you upload it to KDP, for some reason KDP changes some of the formatting (probably to get rid of widows and orphans) and your page numbers are off by a few one way or the other. So my final paperback upload for book 2 actually has the *wrong* page numbers in the Table of Contents...yeah it's a lot of fun.

If you want to publish something to share it with people, start with ebook. Much simpler formatting, cheaper to sell (you don't have to factor in physical printing or delivery). I recommend a pen name, because chances are 'sold some copies of a selfpublished ebook' is not going on your headstone. On the other hand, if you want to make YOURSELF the product, go for it. I see people do plenty of both.

Amazon will not spellcheck beyond an automated pass when you upload your text and preview it. I have found some nasty typos this way. But it also won't know any words you've made up, and it won't tell you if you've the right words written in the order wrong. That requires either a human or, so I hear, some of the more robust tools.

In other words, it's entirely up to you to use what Amazon Publishing provides as to how it'll look. It's just another tool really.

But having print on demand is fucking glorious. Do it right and it'll look great.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Fuck me, I actually found that typo in the second book. Jesus.

I did convert the doc to pdf at one point to print a draft for someone but overall I prefer to go doc-->epub (I use Calibre to make, ReadEra to review)--> edit the shit out of the doc-->Kindle Create to convert the final doc to kindle format (including a table of contents)-->upload to KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing, formerly createspace I think).

I mean this is all nuts and bolts. The vast majority of the time is spent just writing and researching...and thinking. A lot of thinking.

I write quite coherently very quickly (as is fairly obvious but how much I post here) but actual writing-writing requires SO much pre-thinking for me. By the time I open a word doc to do anything more than just make notes, I have a lot to work with.

As for paperback, that requires a different word doc because it needs the Amazon paperback guttering/formatting, so when I'm writing and editing I stick to one document (usually the one aimed at ebook) and then paste the text of the final version into a paperback formatted document (usually the book I published already). So for paperback book 2, I just used my paperback book 1 doc, changed the pagination and the sections, and done. Only takes like three or four...full...days...of...messing...about...

And THEN after you've added the page numbers and you upload it to KDP, for some reason KDP changes some of the formatting (probably to get rid of widows and orphans) and your page numbers are off by a few one way or the other. So my final paperback upload for book 2 actually has the *wrong* page numbers in the Table of Contents...yeah it's a lot of fun.

If you want to publish something to share it with people, start with ebook. Much simpler formatting, cheaper to sell (you don't have to factor in physical printing or delivery). I recommend a pen name, because chances are 'sold some copies of a selfpublished ebook' is not going on your headstone. On the other hand, if you want to make YOURSELF the product, go for it. I see people do plenty of both.

Amazon will not spellcheck beyond an automated pass when you upload your text and preview it. I have found some nasty typos this way. But it also won't know any words you've made up, and it won't tell you if you've the right words written in the order wrong. That requires either a human or, so I hear, some of the more robust tools.

In other words, it's entirely up to you to use what Amazon Publishing provides as to how it'll look. It's just another tool really.

But having print on demand is fucking glorious. Do it right and it'll look great.

thanks for sharing. if i ever drag my lazy ass to ever start/finish a book i ll send you a pdf if you're interested.

lol thats quite thorough from begining to end with what tools you use etc.

i didnt even remember to consider kindle.

paperback sounds like such a pain with 3-4 FULL DAYS of tweaking around and the page numbers still could get fudged around? wow!

I find it worth the effort to hold the thing in your hand. It didn't feel real at all until I hefted that first paperback proof copy. That was when I was like...oh. That's a book. I wrote a book.

I might be exaggerating a bit with the time required, but maybe not. I don't recall how long it took me the first time but once I had a template I made sure to keep to it.

Most self-pubbers would probably factor formatting/layout into their publishing costs I think. If they wanted to be legitimately competitive with traditionally published novels.

I don't see a point to that. On the other hand I don't see a point to choosing 'author' as a career. Not now. Far easier jobs out there that pay more. Publish something you've written; don't write something to be published. I stand by that almost without deviation. Leave that to the poor saps who wrote one good book for a fucking ludicrous advance and now have a ten book contract and zero ideas.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

I find it worth the effort to hold the thing in your hand. It didn't feel real at all until I hefted that first paperback proof copy. That was when I was like...oh. That's a book. I wrote a book.

I might be exaggerating a bit with the time required, but maybe not. I don't recall how long it took me the first time but once I had a template I made sure to keep to it.

Most self-pubbers would probably factor formatting/layout into their publishing costs I think. If they wanted to be legitimately competitive with traditionally published novels.

I don't see a point to that. On the other hand I don't see a point to choosing 'author' as a career. Not now. Far easier jobs out there that pay more. Publish something you've written; don't write something to be published. I stand by that almost without deviation. Leave that to the poor saps who wrote one good book for a fucking ludicrous advance and now have a ten book contract and zero ideas.

lol book deals... reminds me of my fav horror movie 1408

hmm but yea... having a physical book really gives the feeling of actually writing an actual book.

Yep. And since it's print on demand, there's no real risk of overproduction as there is in traditional publishing.

I surprisingly made it further than you in WoT; not sure why. Bored maybe? Don't remember. I was very young.

I'm lucky to have a free editor that's very good at it. Spouse. Merciless. And we've had arguments about problems. :)

She can't write dialogue for shit (her words, not mine) but a damned good editor. She took years of English and writing, including creative. Just not good at dialogue. Can you learn? Probably. If I learned to play bagpipes, probably anyone can learn to do anything.

Dialogue is what makes an eminently readable writer. Maybe not the best writer, but readable. Robert Parker (RIP) was THE greatest at it (that I know of). Writers and aspiring writers, even if they detest the crime genre, could do worse than study his dialogue.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Yep. And since it's print on demand, there's no real risk of overproduction as there is in traditional publishing.

i ve been living under a rock for so long. i just checked amazon paperback coz i was curious what you meant by "print on demand".

damn we live in very new times where we can just get a book printed on demand.

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exsea wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Yep. And since it's print on demand, there's no real risk of overproduction as there is in traditional publishing.

i ve been living under a rock for so long. i just checked amazon paperback coz i was curious what you meant by "print on demand".

damn we live in very new times where we can just get a book printed on demand.

Its fucking magical.

Before that, there was no option for a self publisher outside of forming a company and hunting down a press.