Stuff I like about D4 and how it made me realize im not as "hardcore" as i was after all

Heres the bottom line for me, exsea: if DIV had bad writing or a shit story or flat characters, that last 10 minute cutscene would have been unearned and misplaced. Instead it served as the grand culmination of everything you had experienced so far.

It is important to remember that it is THE only true cinematic cutscene in the game. The opening and the ending. This is very faithful to Diablo 1, and is yet one more rejection of D3's abundance of beautiful but largely pointless cutscenes.

This also relates to the FF discussion: since VII they have all had some great cutscenes but usually its the first and the last we remember most. Liberi Fatali. Bombing Mission. Meteor. The compression of time. Spira. That utterly bonkers ending to the original XIV/prologue to A Realm Reborn. We also remember the emotional highlights (aerith, the dance in VIII, suteki da ne and the sending in X) but those are also earned over many hours of story and play.

So I love that DIV saved all of its punch for one cutscene and delivered hard. I can watch that mini movie over and again. Not just because it is well made but because it means so much to someone who played up to it and paid attention to the story.

As huge as DIV is, less is more is quite often its approach.

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

Whataboutism, exsea. You can call D4 story bland while agreeing that using seashells to do magicks is ridiculous.

lol

am i wrong tho?

is poe quests/subquests any better than d4?

poe has only ONE cutscene afaik.

If it helps enrich the world, it isn't filler. Especially given the story of DIV isnt just its main campaign. Its every quest contributing to our overall understanding of Estuar.

Filler for a tv show or book is much more obvious because those are 100% story driven. But a game? A game needs good, meaningful side content. And in DIV's case, very few of the sidequests don't add something or at least reinforce what a shitty world these people are forced to endure.

Oh and I think it deeply unfair to compare quests between poe and div. Poe came after d2 but before d3. D2 had six quests per act. That was the standard for an arpg that simply had other things on its mind.

DIV is post wow. Post gw2. Post a whole bunch of attempts at blending arpg and mmo. It also probably had many times the budget of poe.

A better comparison would be PoE to Sacred 2, which had a slew of side quests per area and most were kinda silly.

And part of why we really dislike the quests in poe is because we are forced to do them...over...and...over...

Again: standard for when PoE was made. No longer standard in any ARPG. PoE 2 will, without doubt, have a story/quest free mode for repeat playthroughs.

As much as I laud DIV's campaign, I am in no rush to replay it. It served as an excellent introduction to a world I knew I would be spending a lot more time in, long after the credits rolled.

"

exsea wrote:

"

Nomancs wrote:

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

Whether you call it D4 or DIV doesn't change anything about all the negatives with the game. It's a snow job, and it certainly won't make people forget about D3.

One of the worst d4 quest is where they introduce corrupted soldier that was taking bribes and didn't really give a shit at his job, 5min later game is telling you how much that guy was a hero and try to force you to pity him. Why would players give a shit about some poorly written npc? They don't so game try to force feed you. I feel like even d3 had a better story than d4.
Most of the story feels like escort quests from wow, if it could be compared.

in poe you get to find seashells to open up a hidden submerged pathway because reasons.

then nessa becomes a mermaid because reasons.

piety has an interest with you because reasons (duelist has a nice ass).

i think the worst d4 subquest is where blizz forces you to use emoticons omfg.

lols.

yeah d4 has some terrible quests subquests. but coming back to play and enjoy d4, whatever shitty thing d4 has for an excuse of a quest/subquest is still miles above POE.

heck d4 even has a quest where u lead a camel to its owner. its dumb as fuck but i cant help but appreciate the fact the devs took time and effort to code and animate this quest into existence. for sure some of the quests are paper thin but some come with in game animations and even unique npcs. theres a quest where you escort an npc to safety only for him to succumb to something that turns him into a demon.

all this is filler content but damn theres a lot of effort put into em.

PoE story is shallow but also don't force your character to feel this or that, don't give so many prolonged cutscenes about how emotional npcs are that you can't skip. Also d4 is as inconsistent as it can be - blessed by 3 prime evils and act as care bear? sure.

Not many people care about story in PoE - you know why? Because people focus on gameplay and there is so much to do in PoE. Endgame is full of activities.
Why d4 marketing use story as a selling point? - because they lack in gameplay and have barely no endgame except greater rifts 1.5

"

exsea wrote:

theres a quest where you escort an npc to safety only for him to succumb to something that turns him into a demon.

One of those quests where you think "why would I even care, this will go downhill anyway... oh how unexpected, he turned into succubus, I expected that he will turn into fiend, how unexpected..."

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

If it helps enrich the world, it isn't filler.

Ya, blessed by 3 prime evils without thinking (necromancer, intelligence stacking mind you), act as care bear forever after.

Family traveling in a world filled with demons to a point where you can't see the grass anymore, and (YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE IT) got ambushed?! :D

Yah, state of the art story and world of d4. They could at least learn from d3, but no, they had to show them it could get worse.

"

exsea wrote:

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

Whataboutism, exsea. You can call D4 story bland while agreeing that using seashells to do magicks is ridiculous.

lol

am i wrong tho?

is poe quests/subquests any better than d4?

poe has only ONE cutscene afaik.

I already said I agree the seashells quest is rather ridiculous if you cared to read my post at all. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong on this.

But you aren't arguing the point! Instead you are pivoting to pointing fingers instead of making a good case for D4.

If your entire argument is "PoE also has bad quests" then that doesn't make the story in D4 any better.

This whataboutism is seriously offputting. Are you trying to engage in good faith argument at all?

Sidequests weren't D4's story problem, they were fine. The problem is the setting puts such hard limits on what the main quest has to be. Oh, another evil thing from hell is doing evil things, and as a result other evil things from hell are coming into our world to also do evil things? No way.

You have simplified it pretty heavily there, Gus, but sure. Thats kinda what Diablo does. Baby steps here: there is some nuance between the good guys and the bad here. Lilith is by far the most sympathetic antagonist in Diablo history. Hell, even the wolf makes some good points.

After D3, DIV remains a surprise to me and I will take it. Because we both know at any time it could slide right back into cartoonish pap. Not saying it's the Andor of the IP but it is as close as we have right now.

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

After D3, DIV remains a surprise to me and I will take it. Because we both know at any time it could slide right back into cartoonish pap. Not saying it's the Andor of the IP but it is as close as we have right now.

This.
I was recently gifted DIV and am enjoying it very much.
It is a nice break from the P-OE-HD grind that I have been a part of for nearly 12 years.

"

Nomancs wrote:

PoE story is shallow but also don't force your character to feel this or that, don't give so many prolonged cutscenes about how emotional npcs are that you can't skip. Also d4 is as inconsistent as it can be - blessed by 3 prime evils and act as care bear? sure.

Not many people care about story in PoE - you know why? Because people focus on gameplay and there is so much to do in PoE. Endgame is full of activities.
Why d4 marketing use story as a selling point? - because they lack in gameplay and have barely no endgame except greater rifts 1.5



One of those quests where you think "why would I even care, this will go downhill anyway... oh how unexpected, he turned into succubus, I expected that he will turn into fiend, how unexpected..."

true, actually as an avid arpger, story usually gets side tracked. so does the sidequests.

to be honest i just want to blast and kill enemies. playing d4 in season even tho i use the skip campaign feature i find myself frustrated when i engage in optional sidequests that have dialogue that cant be skipped and i have to wait for the "scene" to play out.

that said i still find great appreciation in the level of effort and detail that the devs put into adding all these sidequests.

and there are a lot of sidequests in d4 that are scripted.

and you're right about d4 focusing on story because they lacked end game.

i would say, the devs were complacent. they started the genre off with d1. it was solid, the game play was basic and they had a story.

d2 came and they expanded the gameplay and kept focus on story.

d3 was the first time where they TRIED to do something that is akin to end game. i would say d3 is bad because theres no real weight on making builds. d3 was made by a different team after all.

d4 is more of "d2 team" trying to make diablo great again. the problem is diablo series never really had a proper end game. in fact i would say they were still tied up with the mindset of making "another diablo 2".

diablo 2 has no real end game.

its pretty ironic if you think about it. d1/d2 are the grandaddies of arpgs but the genre evolved forward leaving them behind.

the d4 devs were making diablo 2 sequel but without taking any notes from other games and were being very bullheaded on just focusing on the story and expect the fans to just stay engaged.

so yeah they did focus alot on the story and the gameplay suffered. they had a barebone endgame that was not enjoyable.

but currently the endgame is kinda enjoyable. and now they have both endgame and story as features of the game.

that said, i m pretty certain poe2 COULD have both and could be better at both. and i m still hyped for POE2.

its also ironic that i went from shitting on d4 any chance i got to now liking d4 magnitudes more than what poe1. i've really gone and become a casual.