Stagnation boss oneshot this chr.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Where you got this formula? Have you tested it in the game?

Poedb, by selecting the correct monster level. There's a monster damage modifier you need to account for. In this case, it's 160% increased damage.

Where is this formula in poedb?

And I have tested map boss damages (not this one and it was a few leagues ago) in game and poedb numbers can be wrong (by a large margin) so I dont exactly trust everything there. Especially the claim that somehow Base Damage %% needs to be taken into account I was not able to combine with the test results I got for skills that are not based on monster base damage.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Where is this formula in poedb?

And I have tested map boss damages (not this one and it was a few leagues ago) in game and poedb numbers can be wrong (by a large margin) so I dont exactly trust everything there. Especially the claim that somehow Base Damage %% needs to be taken into account I was not able to combine with the test results I got for skills that are not based on monster base damage.

Poedb is using datamined information. It has the correct monster information when you select the correct enemy at the correct level in the correct location, using the correct skills and reading their stats carefully. What you were looking at was the already scaled portion, which you incorrectly applied again in your math example, i.e. the *1.7(MonsterUnique5) multiplier. I'm not even sure where you got it from. When you hover over the base damage, it shows you that it's already calculated.

Merciless Izaro at lvl 68 does a fuckton of damage with his mace slam because it has a 100% more damage modifier when hit directly in the center. Like, upwards of +13k. Actually, 13279 at max roll + in center + crit and no buffs.

I believe my way of calculating to be correct, otherwise it'd not have aligned with Merc Izaro surprise one-shotting my Champion with his mace slam. I did the math several times, and the only way he was able to kill me through ~2.9k HP, ~69k Armour, 3 Endurance Charges, Enduring Cry + 20% Fortify was with that kind of damage.

Unsurprising, because his slam is supercharged and deals high base Physical Damage, and due to how Armour scales against higher hits, my Armour wasn't high enough. So, I ended up taking about 3.8k damage in 1 hit, which obviously killed me.

If his slam had dealt only half as much damage, I'd have taken 1051 damage and lived multiple times over. If his slam had dealt 2/3 of the above listed damage, I'd have taken 1814 damage and lived multiple times over. Even if only accounting for the average roll + crit of 11065 damage, he would not have been able to kill me, taking "only" 2830 damage.

Significant difference. So, he must have rolled above average roll and crit me. It's also quite evident because he tickled me with everything else.

That's how I found the math to only check out when you account for everything exactly as listed. Otherwise, there's literally no way he could have one-shot my character. As in, literally impossible. I have no other explanation.

I used PoB as my reference tool, so there's no math error on my end.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Poedb is using datamined information. It has the correct monster information when you select the correct enemy at the correct level in the correct location, using the correct skills and reading their stats carefully.

Far as I know it does not have the correct interpretation/formulas of those values.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

i.e. the *1.7(MonsterUnique5) multiplier. I'm not even sure where you got it from.

Maybe search for this string: "The following values are skill base values and do not include map affix bonuses, monster buff bonuses, altar bonuses, atlas skill bonuses, monster base damage(ex: The Maven 150% multiplier), monster rarity bonuses (ex: unique 70% more, unique attack 33% less)."

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

When you hover over the base damage, it shows you that it's already calculated.

This is about Rock spell. It has direct damage entry in poedb. According to my testing the values for such entries do not relate to the base damage values of the same monster in poedb.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Merciless Izaro at lvl 68 does a fuckton of damage with his mace slam because it has a 100% more damage modifier when hit directly in the center. Like, upwards of +13k. Actually, 13279 at max roll + in center + crit and no buffs.

I believe my way of calculating to be correct, otherwise it'd not have aligned with Merc Izaro surprise one-shotting my Champion with his mace slam. I did the math several times, and the only way he was able to kill me through ~2.9k HP, ~69k Armour, 3 Endurance Charges, Enduring Cry + 20% Fortify was with that kind of damage.

Unsurprising, because his slam is supercharged and deals high base Physical Damage, and due to how Armour scales against higher hits, my Armour wasn't high enough. So, I ended up taking about 3.8k damage in 1 hit, which obviously killed me.

If his slam had dealt only half as much damage, I'd have taken 1051 damage and lived multiple times over. If his slam had dealt 2/3 of the above listed damage, I'd have taken 1814 damage and lived multiple times over. Even if only accounting for the average roll + crit of 11065 damage, he would not have been able to kill me, taking "only" 2830 damage.

Significant difference. So, he must have rolled above average roll and crit me. It's also quite evident because he tickled me with everything else.

That's how I found the math to only check out when you account for everything exactly as listed. Otherwise, there's literally no way he could have one-shot my character. As in, literally impossible. I have no other explanation.

I used PoB as my reference tool, so there's no math error on my end.

So basically you got "oneshot" once and created your formula from that despite only having a lower limit for the damage - assuming there was nothing weird going on. I have tested Izaro in the past also, and for Izaro I got the result that the "Base Damage:" numbers are correct (unlike for map bosses). And (IIRC, not 100% sure, dont remember in detail) for Izaro I did not get anything like your effective numbers either. It would be more like 1824×1,3×1,7×0,67×2 = 5402 max damage for the mace slam, but I dont remember 100%.
Anyway this is about an entry without "Base Damage:".

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Zrevnur wrote:

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Poedb is using datamined information. It has the correct monster information when you select the correct enemy at the correct level in the correct location, using the correct skills and reading their stats carefully.

Far as I know it does not have the correct interpretation/formulas of those values.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

i.e. the *1.7(MonsterUnique5) multiplier. I'm not even sure where you got it from.

Maybe search for this string: "The following values are skill base values and do not include map affix bonuses, monster buff bonuses, altar bonuses, atlas skill bonuses, monster base damage(ex: The Maven 150% multiplier), monster rarity bonuses (ex: unique 70% more, unique attack 33% less)."

I'm talking about this:

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Zrevnur wrote:

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

When you hover over the base damage, it shows you that it's already calculated.

This is about Rock spell. It has direct damage entry in poedb. According to my testing the values for such entries do not relate to the base damage values of the same monster in poedb.

However, I will concede. There's something funky going on, definitely, as the math no longer checks out when I look at Shaper.

In PoB, his 100% roll on Slam is displayed as 15233, but when I take the base damage from Poedb and only add the 200% monster damage (not accounting for the 200% more on the skill), it gives me 15516.

Adding a crit, in PoB it's listed as 19803. Using the Poedb stats, it'd be 20170.

Anyhow, using my previous formula, it would be 5172 + 200% increased * 200% more + 30% crit = 60512, which is definitely not it.

Maybe the base skill damage on Poedb already accounts for its modifiers, I dunno. I'd have to run the math again on Izaro, but his slam damage has to be somewhere in that range, otherwise it mathematically doesn't make sense.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

I'm talking about this:

Ok, but what is the relevance of this value?

Or are you trying to say that you used this formula? (Clearly you didnt though...)

Thx for the response guys, did noy know that boss could hit for 26k on a crit. Just feels wierd when i can tank shaper slams.

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Kreakor wrote:

Thx for the response guys, did noy know that boss could hit for 26k on a crit. Just feels wierd when i can tank shaper slams.

Probably not a shaper slam CRIT though ;)

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Zrevnur wrote:

Far as I know - based on https://poedb.tw/us/Murgeth_Bogsong - max dam without mods should be:

17231 = 7797 *1.7uni *1.3crit

Phys damage reduction and/or conversion apply so you will take a lot less than that. And its a spell so Spell Suppression also.

You are missing the 160% damage multiplier that is NOT included in the base spell damage calculation. I also don't really know where the 1.7x is coming from, do unique monsters have a 70% more multi by default?

IF the monster is level 83 (I thought map bosses are a tier or two higher or maybe that's just drops) and IF unique monsters have a built in 70% more multi...

7797 (max base) x 1.7 (unique) x 1.6 (damage boost) x 1.3 (crit + multi). You would THEN also need to account for the error, in this case plus or minus 20% overall damage (labeled as damage spread).

And then you need to make sure to note that this is the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE example, with the AVERAGE being significantly lower than this, probably well over 50% lower. Base damage fluctuates 33%, Crit fluctuates 30%.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Far as I know - based on https://poedb.tw/us/Murgeth_Bogsong - max dam without mods should be:

17231 = 7797 *1.7uni *1.3crit

Phys damage reduction and/or conversion apply so you will take a lot less than that. And its a spell so Spell Suppression also.

You are missing the 160% damage multiplier that is NOT included in the base spell damage calculation.

Which spell damage calculation?

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jsuslak313 wrote:

I also don't really know where the 1.7x is coming from, do unique monsters have a 70% more multi by default?

Yes and its on poedb page, already wrote that above.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

7797 (max base) x 1.7 (unique) x 1.6 (damage boost) x 1.3 (crit + multi). You would THEN also need to account for the error, in this case plus or minus 20% overall damage (labeled as damage spread).

Where is this formula coming from? Is it based on in-game testing?