Melee bad - Feels good and bad to have devs confirm it
" I would remove boneshatter. That stuff keeps holding any meaningful changes behind. GGG remove ancestral totem buffs and buff base gems instead. It is annoying to have to press:
4 warcries, totem, berserk, banner, bloodrage, focus, curse to cast a slam result: 1/5th of normal build damage and 1/4th of POB dps for slam build in real scenario. |
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" I am mostly playing standard but i try to keep my builds up to date and not use legacy gear. The last league i played was crucible. I don't really mind showing my builds, i offert to post a POB last page, the person in question didn't even respond because he doesn't care. The people here that complain all the time aren't interested in learning, that would mean they'd have to blame themselves rather than the game. No matter how many youtube videos, POBs or profiles I show them they'll just ignore all of it so what's the point? I've been participating in these kind of debates for years now and the people complaining didn't really change over the years, i've had my profile open for most of those years, nobody ever even cared. Because of that i've stopped trying to help and stick to just calling them out on their bullshit when it gets out of hand, it doesn't really help but it's somewhat entertaining at least. |
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" Only thing its holding is metaslaves who try to play melee so they ofc gonna play Boneshatter. | |
" i like how the devs have said that Melee is bad and this guy is still blaming the playerbase for "not learning" | |
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It depends almost entirely on how you define bad I guess, he seems to define bad as unworkable at any level of skill, game knowledge and investment. I define bad as horribly inefficient, unfun and possessed of no real advantage over any other option. By his incredibly narrow definition of bad melee is not bad because top end super expensive builds like armour stacker and endurance stack exist and invulnerability makes up for horribly lacking dps. By my and probably everyone elses standards melee is in a terrible position, basically the only skill where you can stack enough ehp to survive and still deal decent damage without outrageous investment is boneshatter, and even then you're usually better off playing something else given boneshatter's poor aoe and being caught in the same weapon trap as ranged attack builds that are vastly stronger for less investment.
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I think melee has a few issues:
Like all characters you need skitterbots + 2 curses to get real damage Pride sucks as an aura for pure phys, it has a large number, but ramps up and falls off while dodging in fights Melee strike range is too rare of a stat, especially for daggers and claws. Rolling melee weapons has more trash mods than caster ones. the base type matters more for melee players. A caster or bow user can use almost any base and be fine. Leech is a bad form of sustain. Most melee skills don't shotgun, the ones that do are underwhelming Almost all melee skills can't be automated or triggered in any form :: this means that every melee build needs an inordinate amount of attack speed when compared to any cast on crit/cast while channeling/cast while stunned. Melee doesn't get inherit tankiness or sustain for being closer to a boss. Attack animations are really wonky, makes attack speed breakpoints harder to determine. Accuracy is a stat for melee but not for spells, why? phys overhwelm is just not a good stat when compared to elemental penetration Impale and warcries need about as much investment as a minion build to do very minimal damage. melee ascendancies are all super old at this point and are just inherently weak like assassin. Repeated attacks can't hit the same target. Stun is too unreliable to build around. the list could go on forever. |
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" I don't think it's bad because i know for a fact that it doesn't take a 100 divines to make a build with good survivability and damage. That 3 mio dps tank of your's is just another prime example of what i am talking about here. I do think that melee has a bunch of issues (totems, clunky in early acts and weapon progression in SSF), and it's also a fact that range has an inherent advantage over it and is therefor "better". But one thing being better than another doesn't make the inferior one "bad" 8/10 is worse than 10/10 but is it bad because of that? For me melee is "fine" as long as i can take a melee build from twighlight strand to ubers on a reasonable budget (~20-30 div depending on league prices) and i can do just that. If someone thinks melee is "bad" because totems are annoying, or because gem scaling is so much more convienient, or because range is easier to build since it can just dodge stuff rather than needing defense, i won't say a thing or disagree, those are valid points. But that's not something i read often. Instead i see lines like: "Even with a 600 pdps weapon melee caps out at 5 mio dps" or "You need 20+ div weapons to do red maps with melee" or "melee is unplayable because you can't go close to shit/stand still without dying" and the likes. Statements that, regardless of what you think about the state of melee, are objectively wrong and so incredibly stupid it gives me goosebumps. And the people who spout that nonsense aren't even aware of it. It's dunning kruger effect on max level. /edit to illustrate the point this is the budget version of my shield crush jugg https://pobb.in/4D0LI1JyDgvI similar EHP and max hits for everything except phys, 6 times the damage and a build cost of around 20 div. If you opt for a 1 mod watchers eye and spend a bit of time sniping you might be able to do it with 10 div. Now look at those 100 div of yours, nevermind all the legacy gear in your buid. The build can outright facetank most ubers and afk in average tier 17 maps. There is a MASSIVE gap between what you people think melee can do and what it can do in reality. Last edited by Baharoth15 on Apr 20, 2024, 5:16:36 AM
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" Not "devs". ONE person. Guess what. Devs usually are pretty bad at their own game. There is one guy at GGG who is very good at the game and he is not one who said melee is bad. Instead the dude who is good at the game is constantly playing melee in SSFHC and reaching lvl100. Last edited by Aynix on Apr 20, 2024, 4:43:41 AM
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" The problem i think is that alot of people say melee is bad because being ranged is safer and can deal damage, that mentality will never change (prety sure there will be posts about melee being bad in PoE2) The problem i have with the confirmation is that it was linked to the character rigging and animation, something that was developed for PoE1, then taken away (kinda, i seem to recall that they were using the new rigs on NPCs) Wouldn't it be easier than spending all that time with the old rigs and just spend that time on making the new rigs work in PoE1? Ancestral Bond. It's a thing that does stuff. -Vipermagi He who controls the pants controls the galaxy. - Rick & Morty S3E1 Last edited by lagwin1980 on Apr 20, 2024, 6:23:14 AM
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From the picture i got in the interviews was that the melee animations were a driving force behind poe 2 and splititng the games up since some things arent possible in poe 1 without a ground up rework of the entire code base.
I might add i have my doubts that its just the animations. In my opinion its also the bad balanced gem effectivity and atk speed numbers that lead to bad performance. Most high dps melee builds I see are squish builds. On the other hand people that have a tanky build have zdps at least in my book. I think melee lacks that proper balance where you can be tanky with good dps (without double totems buffs) on a reasonable budget. |
