There is a huge gap between regular mapping and MF

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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lonestaRip wrote:

the problem is when you spend 10 hours on regular mapping and get 3-5div, while MF get 300-500div and high value uniques. it feels like you are played by the game.

A straight up, bold-faced, complete lie. A PERFECT mf build has MAYBE 100% quant. That literally means exactly what it sounds like: double the drops. So the math is not "3-5 div ---> 300 - 500 div", it is "3-5 --> 6 -10" while conveniently leaving out the hundreds or even thousands of divines it costs to make such a build. Throw even 200-400% rarity on that, and the average mf build is NOT raining t0s and crazy items from mf.

You do NOT have an issue with mf. For god's sake, people need to THINK and understand the damn mechanic before they make such posts like this. Your REAL issues are with party play. The bonuses offered by party play ALONE are the major source of difference in wealth, multiplying base loot by 10x+ while also enabling a faster and safer experience. In a GOOD party that also turns into even MORE wealth with dedicated traders and marketeers. But parties of this type are VERY few and far between.

MF, even in a party like that, is just going to be a 2x or at MOST 3x multiplier, but its the base PARTY buff that causes the real problems.

Yep and we have seen that every league, party play mf is less money than solo with no mf.

again, this topic is about the gap between A and B.

im not talking about how to earn currency, how to farm uniques, how to get what you want.

on the one hand im happy to see people are so optimistic with (party) MF, on the other hand as a hardcore game PoE may be not that kind of game as you guys think.

PoE is not all about number like 100% quantity only means 100% more items. the maximum strategy requires the max MF stats including party bonus. that is to say, casual players have no "right" to use high-cost strategies. you need the max MF bonus to magnify the effect such as divination farm.

its not 100%+50% that simple.

sorry for hurting someone's interests.

^you are fundamentally misrepresenting the issue and misunderstanding the response.

You may want it to be as simple as "gap between A and B", but your definition of A vs. B is inadequate and not actually connected to the "issue" you are arguing about.

There is a difference between these things that you seem to be equating all together:
1) Mf (gear)
2) map mf
3) party mf
4) monster innate mf (this is actually the BIGGEST issue, compounded with broken league mechanics)

When your thread talks about "regular mapping" vs. "mf", you are SPECIFICALLY talking about #1. If you are indeed talking about ALL the possible interactions that multiply loot, then that is not "mf" per se, but rather every single CORE game mechanic, as well as mf, at play.

Of COURSE there is a huge gap between a solo player with no mf running a white map, and a group of players with mirror tier mf running the most possible juice, optimized, league mechanic-infused strategy. That's equivalent to saying there's too wide a gap between a level 1 player running the first area for loot, and a level 95 player running juiced t16s.

Uh....of course there is a gap.

BUT if you set things equally in terms of build, skill, and mechanics being tackled, and the SPEED at which they are being tackled, there is NOT a "huge gap" between the mf-geared players and the non-mf geared players.

There are indeed issues when all of those above 1-4 are multiplied together, but any ONE of them on its own isn't REALLY a problem. You need to be specific in your criticism, otherwise its just straight up wrong.




There are two REAL core issues related to drops that need some attention:
1) Party play bonuses: why do they need to exist in the first place. Its not just iiq and iir, but a straight up multiplier to CURRENCY in particular. Real farming parties are not "splitting" the loot evenly as these multipliers seem to suggest. Rather, it just enables a "company" to hoard massive amounts of loot. Plus running with a good 6-man team is advantage enough....

2) Monster innate iiq/iir: this gets multiplied so goddamn high through various mechanics that its just not even funny. Add atlas passives and new, unbalanced league mechanics in and you get a difference of something like 1:100 or even higher on loot dropped. This is how things like the t17 rogue exile worked, or how abyss spire farming in affliction worked. It was NOT mf.....it was the interaction of various mechanics that EVERYONE in the game interacts with regularly.

The larger the 2 above issues become, the greater mf SEEMS to play a role, but only because people look at ALL of that as an mf issue, when it isn't

MF on player gear is a grossly outdated concept coming from Diablo II. I can understand GGG loves Diablo II because they based their game on it, POE is the "real Diablo 3" in the eyes of many players and fans.

But MF is seriously outdated and doesn't fit into current game.

The whole premise of it is sacing power for more items. Making your build slightly weaker for that extra 10 or 20 quant piece.

Except this just isn't true. MF players invest nose deep into it because power creep on gear has been so large that you need like 3 items to clear red juiced maps - headhunter / mageblood, good bow and good quiver. The rest can be MF gear. Auras, jewels and all that crap handles your DPS, survivalability and sustain. It's to the point where going "partially in" doesn't make sense, if you go MF you go full-on.

And in the most egregious examples of MF play - party MF - it's just one player that needs to invest heavily into MF. The rest can provide everything else outside of MF - aurabot provides immortality, DPS players handle tanky rares, MF player just uses culling strike so the killing blow registers with 42069% quant and 2137% rarity.

I prefer MF to be choices in map juicing / atlas strategies. Such as Back to Basics quant maxing. Not player gear that scales with party member count.