Having now experienced Last Epoch's trade system, I think PoE does it right, actually.

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cursorTarget wrote:

It's VERY abusive way to trade because botters will be very happy to exploit every single aspect of this system.

Why doesn't eBay need to implement tedium to combat bots then?

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ShamelessWhiteknight wrote:

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cursorTarget wrote:

It's VERY abusive way to trade because botters will be very happy to exploit every single aspect of this system.

Why doesn't eBay need to implement tedium to combat bots then?

Because they don't care. Ebay has lots of fake sellers, people pulling back their offers and sales mid deal and scammers.
That's why Ebay's reputation isn't exactly the best.

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Scarletsword wrote:

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ShamelessWhiteknight wrote:

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cursorTarget wrote:

It's VERY abusive way to trade because botters will be very happy to exploit every single aspect of this system.

Why doesn't eBay need to implement tedium to combat bots then?

Because they don't care. Ebay has lots of fake sellers, people pulling back their offers and sales mid deal and scammers.
That's why Ebay's reputation isn't exactly the best.

That doesn't address the question because implementing tedium to combat bots on eBay wouldn't resolve these issues. Enhancing fraud detection, buyer/seller protection would probably be more effective than adding inconvenience for all users, no?

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ShamelessWhiteknight wrote:

Why doesn't eBay need to implement tedium to combat bots then?

Because mandatory delivery completely ellimates bots of such type. And the sellers must own the item legally, they can't sell nothing. PoE is opposite different story. And yes, E-bay still has a lot of fake sellers and buyers which are not banned and sued. And it's not good for the ecosystem.

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cursorTarget wrote:

PoE is opposite different story.

Explain

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cursorTarget wrote:

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Xyel wrote:

That's where instant buyout comes in.

Okay but it's not you call AH. You need instant trade and/or automation without delays and spending your time on the trading process. It's VERY abusive way to trade because botters will be very happy to exploit every single aspect of this system.

Even if it is auction and not just buyouts (a shop or marketplace), there are several ways to abuse it. For example:

1. Fake buyers (you can up the price)
2. Last offer (you can buyout the item in the last millisencod after auction ends)
3. Price fixers (you can set the low price and the win auction with your own bots, then list item again)

Even the oldest AH's, like the WoW one, have instant buyout, so that's a basic feature of one, and it's an oddity if it doesn't have one.

1. For what purpose? To move currency, you can just go to someone's hideout and give it to them directly, so there are no barriers to it and doing it through AH would be just add meaningless steps.
2. Well, that's the point of a buyout... to be able to instantly buy out the item. That's a feature, not abuse.
3. That's done on current PoE trade already, where one of the basic get-rich strategies is to watch for content-creators to release guides, see what the key unique(s) are, buyout the market of that item (using bots), and then resell at a huge profit margin. It's not anything new either, so an AH wouldn't really change anything, especially in terms of currency, where an AH would actually make market manipulation more difficult, because right now currency trade slows down heavily later into the leagues, as it's too annoying to trade large volumes of currency, so the market becomes small enough that it becomes manipulatable. AH would stop that.

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Xyel wrote:

1. For what purpose? To move currency, you can just go to someone's hideout and give it to them directly, so there are no barriers to it and doing it through AH would be just add meaningless steps.
2. Well, that's the point of a buyout... to be able to instantly buy out the item. That's a feature, not abuse.
3. That's done on current PoE trade already, where one of the basic get-rich strategies is to watch for content-creators to release guides, see what the key unique(s) are, buyout the market of that item (using bots), and then resell at a huge profit margin. It's not anything new either, so an AH wouldn't really change anything, especially in terms of currency, where an AH would actually make market manipulation more difficult, because right now currency trade slows down heavily later into the leagues, as it's too annoying to trade large volumes of currency, so the market becomes small enough that it becomes manipulatable. AH would stop that.

1. To sell the item for the maximum possible price. You set item, someone offers 1 chaos, then fake offer 2c, someone offers 3c, fake offer 4c, somone offers 5c, fake offer 6c, item sold to the fake buyer and transfered to the owner. Owner PMs to the guy who offered 5c. PROFIT! This way is old as world. In most civilized countries you will be jailed for that, but not in videogames.

2. It completely ruins the idea of fair AH where competitors have ability to compete for the item offering the better price. It completely nullifies their efforts because because at the very end of the period bot can buyout the item in the millisecond without giving a chance to continue the competition. D3 is a good example.

3. Yes, we already have price fixers. But with AH they won't go away as some users assume (just because of instant buyouts). AH doesn't solve anything but brings more issues to the game. That's problem.

POE system has a serious drawback: the market can be easily manipulated and players can be scammed. Bots and players have exploited this system for years.

AH also has the same complications as ANY other system ever invented as it is based on human interaction, doesn't matter if it is direct or indirect, it is the same at the end of the day.

Only thing we have left is preference.

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cursorTarget wrote:

1. To sell the item for the maximum possible price. You set item, someone offers 1 chaos, then fake offer 2c, someone offers 3c, fake offer 4c, somone offers 5c, fake offer 6c, item sold to the fake buyer and transfered to the owner. Owner PMs to the guy who offered 5c. PROFIT! This way is old as world. In most civilized countries you will be jailed for that, but not in videogames.

2. It completely ruins the idea of fair AH where competitors have ability to compete for the item offering the better price. It completely nullifies their efforts because because at the very end of the period bot can buyout the item in the millisecond without giving a chance to continue the competition. D3 is a good example.

3. Yes, we already have price fixers. But with AH they won't go away as some users assume (just because of instant buyouts). AH doesn't solve anything but brings more issues to the game. That's problem.

1. If you list an item without a buyout, it's going to rot there forever unless it's an extremely special (50D+?) piece, because no one is even going to look at items without an instant buyout in any lower price range.

2. Right now, people use trade bots and price watchers to buy underpriced items within seconds of them being posted on PoE trade. I fail to see how your example is any different, and again, you ignore the basic feature of an instant buyout.

3. Oh, they won't go away, but it's not like it would be any major change in that regard. What it does solve is that it will make trading currency, especially lower tier ones, a lot less annoying, increasing the player happiness with the game. That's what it's so wanted for. Just the imagination of being able to get the 1.5k fusings I need to 6L an item by just vacuum-cleaning an AH within a couple of minutes, rather than spending half an hour pming 70 people brings a smile to my face.