Instant buyouts confirmed in PoE 2

"

inisfree1952 wrote:

"

exsea wrote:

"

Silverpelt wrote:

I'll try again.

Instant buyouts?

No need to deal with people who set a low price on their items but ask for much more when you send them a whisper?

No more 1000 whispers to not get an answer or have to deal with (see above) some people?


Awesome.

Gen-X here.

the boomers in this forum will hate you and say everything is fine the way it is

lol

Not this one. I'm all for instant buyout.

Consider this petition signed. I'm all for a shakeup like that. Trade was nostalgic of D2 when this game first came out, but nostalgia is limited in how far it can carry something and it's all out of strength at this point. It's just a chore now and feels like it's just there because of a sunk cost fallacy.

Even when I go back and play stuff like Project Diablo 2 (best mod ever, will never own D2 remaster because this exists) I fucking hate how stupid people are and how hard they'll try and nickle and dime you over a pixel.

We are tired of trying to engage in a personal trade with people who clearly suffer from personality disorders. Lets just reallocate the personal interaction to when we actually want to engage with others, not out of a built-in inconvenience to add some fictional friction.

"

Nomancs wrote:

It is working in other games already, so it will work in PoE too. There are other items in between of mirror and divine, like Hinekora Locks - and those were monopolized in past already - it will be just easier now.

If Hineckora Locks are being monopolized *already*, insta buyout will not do harm. If it’s “easier” or not, it has already happened. Then you write players will come to complain. How many posts with hineckora complaints vs trade complaints?
From a bot perspective, they do market transactions in any case whether it’s easy or not. It’s just a programmed set of actions whispers vs buyout transactions - doesn’t matter.

"

Nomancs wrote:

People are calling BS anything and everything, even next league that isn't released yet based on few sec teaser. Trade Manifesto can be "ancient" but it is valid as long as GGG want it to be - you may ofc disagree with it or claim to know what is better for PoE than GGG does.

At least some parts of the trade manifesto are just wrong.
Example: “trade friction is needed to reduce gap between good and bad players”. That’s just wrong, it’s the opposite: the gap becomes widers because of the trade friction. Good players make work around of this clunkyness by ignoring cheap items and only trading in bulk. While bad players still respond to trades for 1c, wasting their time, loosing tons of time-progress.

"

wkernel wrote:

"

Nomancs wrote:

People are calling BS anything and everything, even next league that isn't released yet based on few sec teaser. Trade Manifesto can be "ancient" but it is valid as long as GGG want it to be - you may ofc disagree with it or claim to know what is better for PoE than GGG does.

At least some parts of the trade manifesto are just wrong.
Example: “trade friction is needed to reduce gap between good and bad players”. That’s just wrong, it’s the opposite: the gap becomes widers because of the trade friction. Good players make work around of this clunkyness by ignoring cheap items and only trading in bulk. While bad players still respond to trades for 1c, wasting their time, loosing tons of time-progress.

Wrong, without friction, instant trade will make good players more rich, and bad players more poor. Good players don't sell bad items for 50c or whatever, because of this friction, so bad players can sell theirs - otherwise why would someone buy bad item from bad player for 50c if he can get better item for 30c from a good player that he didn't bother to sell before because of friction. This happened in d3 and this is why ah there was removed.

"

Nomancs wrote:

Wrong, without friction, instant trade will make good players more rich, and bad players more poor. Good players don't sell bad items for 50c or whatever, because of this friction, so bad players can sell theirs - otherwise why would someone buy bad item from bad player for 50c if he can get better item for 30c from a good player that he didn't bother to sell before because of friction. This happened in d3 and this is why ah there was removed.

It sounds good in theory. But currently it is like this:
- the market for 30-50c items is too narrow, so bad players cannot make much profit from it (examples: 20/20 corrupted gems or some items - they sell slowly)
- bad players waste more time in hideout, so their profit disappears

Frictional market doesn’t solve the issue of the fact that nobody wants mediocre items.

"

wkernel wrote:

"

Nomancs wrote:

Wrong, without friction, instant trade will make good players more rich, and bad players more poor. Good players don't sell bad items for 50c or whatever, because of this friction, so bad players can sell theirs - otherwise why would someone buy bad item from bad player for 50c if he can get better item for 30c from a good player that he didn't bother to sell before because of friction. This happened in d3 and this is why ah there was removed.

It sounds good in theory. But currently it is like this:
- the market for 30-50c items is too narrow, so bad players cannot make much profit from it (examples: 20/20 corrupted gems or some items - they sell slowly)
- bad players waste more time in hideout, so their profit disappears

Frictional market doesn’t solve the issue of the fact that nobody wants mediocre items.

It isn't a theory, it happened in d3. No one wanted items from bad players.

"

Nomancs wrote:

It isn't a theory, it happened in d3. No one wanted items from bad players.

d3 didn’t have frictional market so you cannot verify if frictional market would solve the problem.
In poe frictional market isn’t solving it.

It’s not only about bad vs good players. Current frictional market hurts time restricted players who don’t run poe idle in background for trading.

"

wkernel wrote:

"

Nomancs wrote:

It isn't a theory, it happened in d3. No one wanted items from bad players.

d3 didn’t have frictional market so you cannot verify if frictional market would solve the problem.
In poe frictional market isn’t solving it.

It’s not only about bad vs good players. Current frictional market hurts time restricted players who don’t run poe idle in background for trading.

Time restricted players are hurt by time restriction, not by market. This shouldn't even be an argument - because if someone don't have much time, he shouldn't get same things as people who spend more time in POE. Simple solution- if you don't have time, don't play the game that requires a lot of it.
Friction seems to be a lot better solution than unrestricted AH, thats why instant buyouts in PoE 2 will require gold and probably will have other restrictions. PoE2 can be design around it, PoE 1 most likely cannot, not without changes causing mass hysteria.

"

Nomancs wrote:

Time restricted players are hurt by time restriction, not by market. This shouldn't even be an argument - because if someone don't have much time, he shouldn't get same things as people who spend more time in POE. Simple solution- if you don't have time, don't play the game that requires a lot of it.

I was talking about the case when player isn’t spending time in poe, but still running it in background for trading.

"

Nomancs wrote:

Friction seems to be a lot better solution than unrestricted AH, thats why instant buyouts in PoE 2 will require gold and probably will have other restrictions.

Gold in poe2 looks to me like an over thinking and over engineering. It might be useful to catch bots (I’m not sure). But from a perspective of a player it might be either you have always enough gold therefore it’s existence is irrelevant; or you don’t have enough of it. The worst case scenario is gold is easy to farm for bots and too boring to farm for humans. That would be a nightmare.

The problem these frictions trying to solve is to prolong the midgame and to delay the endgame, and here is another trap. What if in process of progression you need to change your build? Like now you have a league starter and then respec to a faster build. If gold is scarce, you’re trapped and frustrated.

"

Nomancs wrote:

PoE2 can be design around it, PoE 1 most likely cannot, not without changes causing mass hysteria.

It is not a question about poe2 vs poe1. It is the mindset of a part of community who is thinking there’s a value in the clunky trading. It is a mistake, There’s no value at all. Any reduction of clunkyness would be great in the current state.

Also wanted to add about this:

"

Nomancs wrote:

why would someone buy bad item from bad player for 50c if he can get better item for 30c from a good player that he didn't bother to sell before because of friction.

Without frictions here is a benefit for the buyer: he gets okay items for low price, thus reducing the gap between players. Frictions (in theory) would only make it worse, but this theory doesn’t work.

"

wkernel wrote:

I was talking about the case when player isn’t spending time in poe, but still running it in background for trading.

Doesn't change anything, those cases are extremely rare. Most people who can play PoE will just play it, mostly bots are used to flip/trade in HO.

"

wkernel wrote:

Gold in poe2 looks to me like an over thinking and over engineering. It might be useful to catch bots (I’m not sure). But from a perspective of a player it might be either you have always enough gold therefore it’s existence is irrelevant; or you don’t have enough of it. The worst case scenario is gold is easy to farm for bots and too boring to farm for humans. That would be a nightmare.

The problem these frictions trying to solve is to prolong the midgame and to delay the endgame, and here is another trap. What if in process of progression you need to change your build? Like now you have a league starter and then respec to a faster build. If gold is scarce, you’re trapped and frustrated.

From what I understand you will have current trade system in PoE2 as well, you can either use gold for instant trade or regular whisp and go to HO trade.

"

wkernel wrote:

It is not a question about poe2 vs poe1. It is the mindset of a part of community who is thinking there’s a value in the clunky trading. It is a mistake, There’s no value at all. Any reduction of clunkyness would be great in the current state.

From a perspective of a player who wants everything instantly, there is no value. From game perspective there is, you can take D4 or many other games as example, where friction is added, even to an extreme (like d4).

"

wkernel wrote:

Without frictions here is a benefit for the buyer: he gets okay items for low price, thus reducing the gap between players. Frictions (in theory) would only make it worse, but this theory doesn’t work.

No, it is the opposite and GGG described it in their manifesto, instant trade equals less trades (gearing steps) so quicker gear progression equals shorter game. EDIT: This is why GGG wrote, that they would gut drop rate if they would implement easier trade. They can design drop rate around gold trade in PoE2.


I know that some players want everything now, instantly, but, that is not healthy. GGG is aware of it. If you think you know better than GGG, I'm sure they will be happy to receive your CV.