Is it really a "meta shake-up"?

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plaguefear wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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plaguefear wrote:

I mean flameblast now has a 6600% more multiplier and the low base damage can be made up for with battle mage, so that is a shake up.

base damage and damage effectiveness are tied together so you scale it how you scale any spell you won't really get different results overall.

Not that that means it won't work might be a banger but I find Pizza to be among the hardest channeling spells to play already.

I used to play triple flameblast totems, ill just do that, max cast speed, get ignite proliferation to clear.

FB of Contraction has -radius per stage. even with totems it is going to be nerve wrecking experience: 'will it connect this time or not?'

imo it is gem swap for (immobile) bosses, nothing else. vaal flameblast on steroids

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Draegnarrr wrote:

and while I also roll my eyes at the number of still no melee buffs post (even though I love melee too) those players aren't wrong.

Weren't you part of the "melee needs damage buffs accross the board" faction back in sanctum/crucible? And now you are rolling your eyes at "no melee buffs posts"? Did you change your mind?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

and while I also roll my eyes at the number of still no melee buffs post (even though I love melee too) those players aren't wrong.

Weren't you part of the "melee needs damage buffs accross the board" faction back in sanctum/crucible? And now you are rolling your eyes at "no melee buffs posts"? Did you change your mind?

no I'm in that group I just don't really post about it in every thread :p, just because I agree doesn't mean that I think every thread should be overtly negative just because melee is once again being told to stand in the corner and be quiet.

I've been part of the melee needs damage buffs camp pretty much always, certainly was still my tune back when everyone argued melee was fine because molten strike had 4x the damage of the next skill. The last time I can remember melee being fine was prior to the animation changes when stat sticks were meta.

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Aynix wrote:

That positive thing to me. Much easier to transfer from one melee build to another if both builds use a lot of same items.

I can appreciate that I just think opposite, if I can switch my skill gem and immediately have success that isn't a build its a character template.

I had one of those when skin of the lords was like 10c as an inquisitor that you could put practically any spell in and have a great all round character. I hated it but I can absolutely get how somebody else might love that.

You realize that we have A LOT of templates like that? Play spell totem - you can change between 50 gems w/o changing anything in your build. Pay spell crit - you can change between a lot of gem w/o changing anything or changing very minor things. Minions as well.
Its not just melee.

Imo what people have a problem with isn't really "melee" it's weapon scaling. You literally need mirror tier rares to compete with stuff like BLS, Paradoxica or Voidforge none of which scale with weapon damage.

Spells can pick whatever +1 wand they get along with whatever rare gear they find and be just fine, at least until red maps.
Melee is limited to a certain set of options to achieve similar cost/power levels from start to finish. Spells also get to that point for endgame gearing but at least early on they provide a lot more freedom.

"Pick up a weapon from the ground and go to red maps with it", simply isn't realistic and it's what many people want. And in most ARPGs, you can actually do that. I play melee in both Grim Dawn and Last Epoch and i can equip whatever weapon i like and still have decent damage.

Personally i don't see much of a problem with how it is in POE, it just boils down to how to make proper builds at the end of the day.
But i can somewhat understand why people have issues with it. It does feel weird that the actual weapon base damage is borderline irrelevant on most melee builds because they mostly scale with flat damage they get from other sources.

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yozzek wrote:

What you guys think about "meta shake-up" term?
In my opinion changes are interesting, but will they really change the meta? Probably all of us (or most of us) are considering same starters as always. I feel like we gonna have same or almost the same high tier meta builds plus some more off-meta, not strong enough to clear a bit harder content, mediocore builds. Is it just me?

the real meta shake-up will happen during the league not at the league start when nobody knows very well how will new gems behave.

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subjugatorxxx wrote:

It isn't a meta shake up.

Because these changes still cause the same problem POE has had for years.

Stale and dull leveling gameplay, which causes 75% of the player base to drop off in the first 4 weeks.

the VAST majority of players will never make it to the Labyrinth enough times to discover much in the way of new builds.

The power loss will be felt heavily by the lower 75% of the player base too, because they level up the slowest.

reducing their damage and extending the core game is akin to torture for many.

So they quit.

And then a very small number of people invest a lot of time, for very little return in figuring it all out for those masses for the next league.

but at least it's still better than D4.

players quitting for skill issue > players quitting for not having content left to do

Thank God the game is complex and challenging enough to keep me hooked not like that other game

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Aynix wrote:

And using one weapon instead another suddenly makes build unfun to you? Waste of time to discuss with person like that. You just compain about melee for the sake of complaining or becuase of your self imposed problems that you can easily fix but you refuse because of your pride or w/e

Sounds like to me you only believe Stat sticks should matter rather than any kind of other stat that might be preferred in whatever build you're doing. Why look for something that might scale better, X has the best stats in the game just use that.

Does it make the build suddenly unfun? No. But I question how it's supposed to make the build instantly viable if it does nothing of what the build is actually doing.

I'm not saying you Can't use the big stat stick, I am saying that I would like more options than "The best tool" over such a wide bracket.