When decent loot starts to come?
" It doesn't start dropping for the average or above average player, ever. That's the biggest issue bar none for me with PoE1. Yes the feeling that you *could* get lucky is there, and that's awesome. But the fact that you'll need to spend hundreds of hours in the league to *maybe* find actual gear yourself is also there, and not awesome. However, you'll get shills who ignore the fact we aren't talking about currency, and spam in all caps about divs per hour doing XYZ, as I'm sure you've seen already. Last edited by Bleu42#4018 on Aug 21, 2023, 11:44:29 PM
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" this is the problem with these threads, virtually no one who comments understands rarity vs value of gear, which should be a simple, obvious concept. people in ssf hardcore are killing pinnacle bosses week 1, so everyone saying loot doesnt drop, you can only get gear from trading is obviously wrong. as far as finding gear with trade value, the value of something is based on how desired it is which is massively effected by its rarity. everyone wants a quicksilver flask i think, essential item. the base flasks are worth nothing because theyre super common. no amount of desirability can overcome an item being too common to find. if 2 magebloods dropped in every map it would have no value, like an alch. you probably couldnt find a buyer at all because after 1 day everyone would have 50+ of them. so when people complain they cant find items to sell in trade, again its mostly ignorance of the way a market works. these items obviously drop or there wouldnt be ones on the market. you didnt find any, ok, so what? increase the drop rates? if you increase the drop rate enough that it would be significant to you as an individual the item would lose the majority of its value. so now you still dont find an item thats valuable in trade. its value in trade is dictated by how easy it is for you to find it. is this not obvious? market value of gear is self levelling, you cant increase drop rates so that more gear worth money in trade drops because the more of it there is the less its worth. you just cant effect trade values like that. if you drop more currency then you get inflation, you item is worth twice as many orbs when you sell it and the one you want to buy is worth twice as many orbs in return. its redundant to even think of 'good' loot in this fashion. the only way to actually measure if gear people find is good or bad in any meaningful way is by its ability to beat the games content. ppl in ssfhc are beating the game, smashing up maps, easy mode stomping. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :) Last edited by Snorkle_uk#0761 on Aug 22, 2023, 12:55:47 AM
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" Sure but people don't understand loot and systems. Chris rubs his head and makes it so that OP plays for 10 hours and finds 10 'good' loot pieces, one for every gear slot. OP equips them. Then plays for another 10 hours and finds what? 10 'good' loot pieces? No. 10 AVERAGE loot pieces. Because he's already wearing the good stuff. Now apply this to everyone and they're right back where OP is. Anyway Last Epoch has a good ground-based loot system. Or play PoE SSF, you'll find upgrades off the ground then b/c you have to. |
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" Honestly this entire argument is completely off the point. It's not about the value of loot, it's about it's usefulness. And that's the problem here. The stuff you find on the ground is so basic that it's use is incredibly limited. The best you can hope for are mediocre life and res rare pieces. Realistically that's all you'll ever get. Sure, if you use an OP spell gem that doesn't scale much with gear and use all your mediocre rares to get half decent life pool and capped resists and if you can do pinnacle boss mechanics in your sleep because you've done them a million times already then sure, you can go and beat them week 1 in SSF HC. That's one big point you convieniently ignore in your argument, the people beating pinnacles week 1 in SSF HC are streamers/long time players with years of experience who always use the 1 or 2 builds that can pull that off because they rely on busted gems that hardly require any scaling. Doesn't change the fact that all their gear is going to be a 1 or 2 out of 10 and even if you farm for the 3 month's straight you'll never make it past 3/10 with loot alone. If you want to get anywhere gear wise in SSF you'll have to use crafting which, with the limited currency you'll have available, will probably cap out at 4/10 unless you spend years in standard gathering currency and craft your ass off. I know because i've actually done that and it took like 1 month of doing a few trades per build to improve damage and survivability several times over on all my builds. Playing SSF just means you'll be hard stuck progression wise before even reaching the halfway point. We aren't even talking about good gear here, the level you can reach is just a step past the absolute bare minimum for basic endgame content and if you don't play meta it probably won't even cut it for the bare minimum. Non-trade gear progression in this game is pathetic joke. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Aug 22, 2023, 4:33:05 AM
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" this is what the op said... " so he is talking about the value of his items. " im not ignoring it, im leaving it implied. yes, thats the reason they can beat those bosses, and actually they often play really gear dependant builds in leagues and they manage absolutely crazy items. Ive seen people like ziz and nugi play int stacking wanders and mad conversion builds requiring extremely specific, hard to get items. ive seen them farm magebloods and headhunters in ssf hc. and yes, they can do it because theyre experienced players. thats the point im making, its not a 'game doesnt drop items' problem. the game drops items that allow you to beat the hardest content self found in hardcore if you are good enough at the game. it doesnt consistently drop items that allow you to faceroll the game with bad builds not knowing what you are doing. its a learn to play issue, not a drops issue. the game is designed to be beat using 4/10 items. thats how the item system works in poe, those 6/10+ tiers of gear are there to allow for lottery jackpot moments, theyre not actually supposed to be consistently obtained. i dont think they ever wanted 10/10 perfect rare items to exist and if they could go back im sure they would make sure they didnt add things that ever allowed them to happen. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" This game used to be about fighting monsters to get better equipment to fight stronger monsters. If only the people who plays 8h daily can do that, the game has a serious balance issue. |
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" But thats not what he wrote. 8h per day doesnt guarentee you to become really good. And you might think its bad if you feel like you need to play 8h go get what you want. I would play another game if I felt so. 24 hours per day hadnt been enough for me to get a top player in some game. Then I chose if I enjoy them playing a bit here and there or skip it totally. |
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" People playing this game 12 hours a day 365 days a year managing to get good items in SSF HC isn't really an argument in favor off the game you realize? How long does a normal person have to play to get the same amount of playtime one of those streamers have? You aren't talking about a skill issue as much as a time issue. Sure, if you dedicate your entire life to it, literally, then you can overcome even the horrible odds in this game eventually, at least sometimes. Does that make it any better? Not really. And we aren't really talking about the "hardest content" in the game either. All they do is red maps and maybe a pinnacle here and there. They hardly ever go against actual endgame content and if they do they use broken/bugged shit like pre nerf DD, seismic or explody totems. Do you really believe that pulling a lever one bazillion times and picking 1 out of <5 skills in the game that don't require gear scaling to do content is a matter of skill? Do you really believe that it's good ARPG design to allow a trade league player to get 6/10 gear in a week while an SSF player with same skill and time investments needs 3 months for 3/10 gear? Your entire argument here is based on literal no lifers using bugged/broken skills as an excuse for the horrible loot design. |
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I've played POE the last few years. I still consider myself a novice/beginner, but one thing still rings true that multiple tubers and streamers say: knowledge is king in this game. It's not about finding good loot, it's about turning the average loot into good loot through many steps.
Take the campaign progression: In Act 1, you are just looking for a 3 link with the right colors. You might get 2 chromes and that's not enough to craft so you have to rely on vendor or drops. By Act 3/4, you're looking for multiple 4 links with the right colors, but you still don't have enough chromes. This is where experience starts kicking in. Can you adjust your build to use different gems, even if its suboptimal, until you can find the ideal colors? Same thing for the basic mods on the gear you find. In the beginning, do you know what mods are useful to you and which aren't so that you can quickly trash gear that is and make use of gear that might be suboptimal? Do you see if an open prefix/suffix will allow you craft a missing, useful mod based on the small amount of currency you've found? This type of progression doesn't stop at the campaign, it keeps going into maps and into currency making. Do the content your current build can handle, grind it, trade all the little things until you can get enough currency to craft or buy upgrades to year gear. These upgrades don't have to be huge, just better than what you got. With enough upgrades, you can start doing harder content, and the flywheel starts going faster. This is the grind, but if you have the knowledge, you can be efficient with your time and progress through all the intermediate steps to get to the goal. Also, last league, it took me 14 hours to get to maps at league start (painfully slow, I know). This league, I did it in 12 hours. Still bad, but better than before. What are streamers doing? 4-5 hours. I watched what they do, they just practice it and know what to look for. Last edited by sano1101#7177 on Aug 22, 2023, 1:54:01 PM
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I wonder if some people think the game exist for the reason that all should make it to level 100. Like this is the main thing, and then all players need a huge dropboost to get there?
But I have never read it so it wouldnt be so. But I still have that feeling as "it take to many hours to get ..." and it is almost the same, but this step is somewhere lower than what i wrote above. Maybe I am just out and lose my track in the forest. At least, I have never had that thought in a game buildt like this. Not even in "Pillars of Eternity", where it should be like this. Correct me if I am totally wrong. But if I am not, why can't you then just accept that "I only reach this far". How would you think if you didnt know what could drop? Because thats were I am, by purpose. And about link and color. I have tons of loot I can use. All (not even one, from another view) are of course not perfect. I say "I have this, and how can I make the best out of it". And if you are not rushing through acts, you have a "good" amount of chroma at least in act 2 or 3. |
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