Haven't PoE 2 devteam learned from d4 devs?

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skjutengris wrote:

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Northern_Ronin wrote:

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skjutengris wrote:

No one want to fight a boss for 10 minutes in a arpg.

I sorta do, as long as those 10 minutes are more than just "stand in place and use normal attack".

100 bosses later, you still feel like that?
then your second character
:)

It's better than avoiding the mechanics by dmg it's just boring I enter the fight with the boss and he falls after 3s

Additionally, in Poe 1 such strange things as uber uber versions are created

They even run out of ideas on how to introduce a good boss into the game

In ruthlees I fought in this league with Maven with my radier tornado shot build and I failed hehe but the only thing I was missing to win was a little higher dmg. I got to the last phase but there was simply no dmg. I have somewhere 500,000 for a tornado and 200 for ballista artillery, but in a normal league, I could increase it at least 10 times, which would completely remove Maven and with the uber version, similar principle, only more investment and the same

I lost in ruthless with Maven but I don't feel bad about it in any way

And usually maps are just zoom click zoom click

Poe 2 looks more inviting and interesting, but the final game will certainly be faster than what they showed and what diablo 4 offers

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They didn't say they removed the Labyrinth. They said the Labyrinth is no longer how you Ascend. Those are two different sentences. Admittedly for most people they're equivalent, but who knows - with Ascendancies no longer contingent on them, maybe they'll put cool new rewards in the Lab for us to go and clean Izaro's clock over? be a shame if the new game didn't play around with the Labyrinth somehow.

Wishful thinking, but let's imagine you're right. Enjoy fighting Izaro 3 times with one kill taking 7 minutes and an average run being 30-60 minutes. Dodge-roll his chaosbolts instakill, let's see how fun that is more than once.

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Built-in dodge roll with attack/projectile invulnerability (and confirmed Cast on Dodge Roll coming up!). All characters now have free and unlimited access to in-combat mobility without having to abuse Shield Charge's poor, tortured corpse anymore.

Yeah, imagine, you have dark souls lite dodge rolls. Enjoy unplayable charge skills and even worse melee, look at the video of the jump slams, now try imagining how you would ever fit a cyclone in vs a boss. Constant interrupt by rolling. Calling it now, freeze pulse behind bosses and anything not insta-cast never used again.

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Dual-spec passive tree allowing a larger total number of points to be allocated on the tree - each skill book is now worth double the passive tree point value. Even if you don't use it for its intended purpose because you're a One Button Build Enjoyer, you can easily spec a "Mapping" weapon and a "bossing" weapon, trading QoL and area-clearing nodes for extra damage or defense in boss fights by switching weapons.

With a clear design goal of slowing the game down and all evidence showing that the game is going to be slower than diablo 1, having 3 skill trees with a total of 5% increased dmg from each isn't going to make this more fun. I'll agree, it's an awesome new idea and has tons of new build options and it would be amazing to play around with. Too bad you won't ever get regret orbs and respeccing is going to be harder in PoE 2 than in PoE 1.

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Deterministic acquisition of five-socket items; no more spamming ten billion Fusings or using weird corruption tricks to get your 6L/5S, just obtain one item you use once and your 4S gem becomes a 5S gem.

You had deterministic aquisition of links through the crafting bench, the above trick was a roundabout way of gambling. They haven't said anything about the odds of getting the new jewelers needed for links and you're just assuming it'll be a high drop chance. From the overall impression they gave during the talks, I doubt it'll work the way you describe it. 3 levels of currency for links, the highest might be rarity on the level of a mirror. I'm convinced you'll have a harder time getting 6L in PoE 2 than in PoE 1 cos, man, imagine going faster than 23 minutes for a beach map with a total of 12 mobs, one essence rare and one boss.

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Deterministic socket coloring; use one chrome once and you get exactly the socket you need. Again, no more clicking through five hundred chromes trying to get a STR/DEX body armor to roll 5B1G for your Lightning Coil spellcaster.

You had this via the craftingbench, harvestcrafting, etc. I'll give you this though, yes, this is a good change, assuming again chromes will drop at the very least as often as they do in PoE now.

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Campaign bosses rewarding permanent character boosts for completion.

You mean like a skillpoint? That isn't account-wide and needs to be redone for every alt? Sounds like optional bosses during acts aren't optional.

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Vendors actually being fucking useful past Act 2.

This is pure imagination, the only vendor you'll use is the one you'll gamble your auto-picked up gold from that also takes space in your inventory.

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Looted gems being able to transform into any* skill gem you want/need at the time, instead of always finding Marauder gems on your Lightning Coil spellcaster.

Agreed, good change, calling it now though, it'll be rarer than actually going to act 6 and buying whatever gem you want and in effect make it more difficult to aquire skills.

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Minor but valid: in-town NPC for free mass identification of items.

Good change. Too bad it's going to be on the other end of town from the well you need to click on to replenish your flasks.

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(Almost) double the number of base classes with (almost) double the Ascendancy choices.

Great change, agreed. I'd trade all of them to get back my movementspeed during leveling 'cos I'm never going to level any of them if grinding the campain takes 20 hours.

"Great change, agreed. I'd trade all of them to get back my movementspeed during leveling 'cos I'm never going to level any of them if grinding the campain takes 20 hours."

What you described there sounds like someone was about to torture you

What a difference where you grind in the campaign or in the end game after all it's one and the same action

Maybe after some update they will add some speed, they give this kind of project so that people won't trivialize it in the first week of the game, I guess hehe maybe it will be different

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Phrazz wrote:

I'm still fairly optimistic, but I'm not going to be blown away. Deep down, I still believe that GGG cannot be stupid enough to let go of the staple position they have in the ARPG market as a fast paced ARPG. But I do need some footage of a well-geared, well-rounded character before I make up my mind here.

i hear you.

what we saw is not the actual game balance, that doesnt even exist yet cause theyre still designing the monsters etc, they havent even begun to balance the game but they chose that difficulty to show off.

thing to remember is that this is GGG. this is the company that released a game in 2013 where a hasted multiproj voidbearer in merciless docks would instakill you, who released a game where a t1 map metamorph would 1 shot you, beyond flickerstrike sword bros with chaos degen auras forcing hardcore players to instalog when they spawned, unkillable arch nem mobs, every other league for the last 8 years we have had to go to the forums day 1 and say hey, your content is stupidly fking overtuned wtf are doing? turn this shit down ffs whats wrong with you?

its the same dev team making this game, and were probably gonna go into open beta, its gonna be bullshit and we will need to tell them all that yet again.


but its also the dev team who made the poe we are playing now which is the most stupidly fast, over the top, powercreeped riot of nonsense that any arpg has devolved into. by the end of 2013 this game was insane at the top end, faster than any other arpg that has existed, and has got progressively faster since then every year.


so what we are seeing is true to form for GGG, and everything they are saying is true to form, and the clear result of GGGs form to date is what poe1 is now. so how worried should we be that poe2 will be totally different to poe1?


obviously theres concerns but its probably fine. people always quote ruthless and the vision etc but kind of forget the part where they made poe1, poe1 is the most stupidly overpowered speedcore arpg ever made because GGG made it, this game is the result of what happens when you let these devs do what comes naturally to them. we have to take them trying to slow the game down a fraction and saying well its maybe got a bit too fast when ur shooting 1000 projectiles a second clearing mobs 2 screens away while u have 300% movespeed and put that along side the fact that they are the devs who made the same where you are shooting 1000 projectiles a second clearing mobs 2 screens away while u have 300% movespeed.

it's truly joever

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tocoman wrote:

the poe "dev teamns" are more focused on making your experience miserable lol

That's really true! so no sarcasm.
in poe 1 there is absolutely mindless balance. Plus low fps and lots of effects. but any nonsense will kill you in 0.1 second. You can't even react. Most people don't even get gear because the game flies off the hard drive before act 10.

but why do they do that? what is their business model? Not even a psychiatrist can help here.

yeah, they removed my post so I'll rephrase it.

ggg developers aren't actively playing path of exile. this is very obvious from the balance changes and the missing QoL features. this isn't really a problem though, at least they can listen to the feedback and act accordingly, after all they're the game designers, not us.

but, everything we've heard and seen about poe 2 so far makes it look like they removed every single piece of content that makes poe 1 good and replaced them with a bunch of features that shouldn't even be in an arpg. heck, some of the poe 2 footage makes me feel like I'm watching lost ark chaos dungeon at 0.1x speed. what the hell is this? that's not path of exile. if this is "the vision", I'll stick to poe 1.

I love every single one of those bullet points. Thanks GGG, back to 2013 we go. I haven't really played this game with the same energy for years because of the zoomy playstyle enforced, so I'm looking forward to PoE2.

It is hard to tell without having played the game myself so for the time being I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt. Though I will say that the more zooming and faster PoE was what eventually attracted me to begin with in 2016. I started playing for good (and supporting the game!) with 2.2 and Ascendancy, the significantly slower version in 2013 wasn't for me. If PoE2 is heading back into that direction, or actually feels more like whatever Ruthless currently is, then I am simply not interested.

The ever faster and crazier approach from 2.2 to 3.11 is what I enjoyed the most. It is arguably also what made PoE stand out from other games to begin with. That doesn't mean PoE2 won't be a great game on its own but I most likely won't be the target audience.

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Stormgrave wrote:

List of removed effects (nerfs):

* Crafting bench

* Statincreases from charges and harder to generate
( " If you can get enough attackspeed, trololol huehuehue " )

* Movementspeed

* Flasks, including quicksilver

* HP-regen

* MF
(Will be in the game for currency, aka, nerf)

* Undecided on div-cards, but HH will still be in the game, so I guess it'll be a 1 in 5 million hour drop chance?

* "You won't be able to craft maps, hueheuheueu" , really funny, reflect back

* Portals (TL:DR - devteam think you should git gud and "learn from your mistakes", "improve your gameplay"...)

* Removed lab (Honestly, this is the one change I like, imagine dodge-rolling through lab...)

Welcome to scuffed ruthless!
8 years of devtime for this?

D4 dev-team said in their latest stream that nerfs should come with accompaning buffs and be more clear on their longterm goal of the game. Can someone list a single buff that has been introduced?

- Crafting Bench // If they are removing it, then that is because they have come up with something better. I don't know why they would remove most of it, but multi mod and so on I understand. So if in PoE 2 we can't even craft basic life, resists, sockets, links, ect then it is probably because they are replacing the system entirely with something else.

I could see them making Rog crafting as the primary crafting method, as it is more intuitive and easier to understand for the average player, and also means they can free up tons of currency and items which are only really used in the crafting process, along with the ability to completely purge old league mechanics, like Harvest.

- Making charges harder to get in PoE 2 might make sense. In PoE 2 charges are used to allow a single skill to have multiple actions. If you could essentially have permanent max charges, it means the normal effect of all skills doesn't exist, and only the secondary effect does. This is different than in PoE 1 where pretty much every skill only does 1 thing, and charges are not consumed to change how that skill works completely.

- Reducing movement speed sucks. But where is that movement speed being taken from is what matters. The top end, or the bottom. If its taken from the bottom, right from level 1 mobility is going to suck, theoretically, while if its taken from the top, its pretty much negligible. The reason I say taking mobility from the bottom theoretically is going to suck, is because technically the dodge can be spammed infinitely, with no cool down. Meaning maybe people with just bind dodge to left click and hope it spams it when holding left click, or people will use a macro that keeps pressing dodge, and bind it to M4 / M5.

- So they are planning to remove Flasks as a whole, or Utility Flasks ? Removing Utility Flasks, technically is a good idea. Utility flasks are way too strong, and if you are able to generate enough flask charges, you can cover large portions of all of your offense and defense just through flasks. The fact we also get so many flask slots, and the effects of multiple different flasks can be active at the same time is why Flasks are some of the most important items on your character, if not THE most important items on your character. Moving that power elsewhere is a good idea, or straight up just removing it. You have to realize that all the changes in PoE 2 come with the caveat by design you will be able to achieve more skills on your character, and more skills with 6 links than you can possibly obtain in PoE 1. That change alone is going to change builds forever.

- Their straight up removing HP regen stat as a whole ? So how are you going to heal, or counter damage over time? Will there no longer be skills or items in the game that degen your HP like Righteous Fire or Deaths Oath, or skills that cost life ? You get stuck with Bleed, Poison, or a degen aura and just get melted? If Damage over time, from enemies, and from yourself just no longer exists in PoE 2 then I am fine with no HP regen.

- Divination Cards suck. There are way to many of them, and it doesn't matter if the div card is for something good or not, because the good ones are rare, and the majority, which are junk, are everywhere across all content in the game. It was nice when a card dropped from a single location, or two, or when only 1 card existed to result in an item. These days there are just more cards, that give other cards, that give other cards, that give a Mageblood, or headhunter. Pretty boring. Divination cards were supposed to be GGG's answer to deterministic farming. Put all the good stuff into the core loot pool, remove most unique drops from bosses and put them in that pool, then add divination cards as a way to specifically farm towards something you want, if the card exists.

- You can't craft maps? If that is true, then it must also mean there are no map mods that your build can not do. PoE 1 has mods that a variety of builds simply wont even function or survive if they tried to do it. If you cant craft maps, then these mods must not exist in PoE 2.

- Portals // So are you saying there are no longer multiple portals while mapping or engaging in certain content, or are you saying portal scrolls do no exist? Portal scrolls is what ever. You shouldn't need to use 1 unless you are leaving a map anyways. If its you only get 1 portal, then that would be an odd decision considering the vast majority of players are casual players who definitely wouldn't like that. As a side note, they already said failing a boss fight resets their HP, that's already punishing enough for many.

- Removing Lab is a good idea, at least mandatory Lab. Honestly it could be replaced with Sanctum Entirely. Sanctum is more fun anyways, and straight to the point.