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The summary of this manifesto is:
Problem: Enjoying the game with powerful builds.
Solution: Making the game unplayable.
:)
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Posted byzaferongunon Aug 7, 2022, 3:19:42 PM
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I mean, to get at root causes, the ultimate problem is the XP scaling at the top end. Past level 90 it starts to take a LOT of XP to level, and a single death is demoralizing with how much wasted time happens. If you died 3-4 times in a map/scenario you weren't prepared for it can be enough to make you just walk away from the league.
While levelling, no one (but hardcore league) cares about a death here or there. Once you hit maps, it starts getting important. Once you get to red maps, it becomes something you start obsessing over.
And what's the result? Finding the golden zone where you don't die and can kill relatively fast. If you want people to play the way you'd like them to, you've got to quit with the ridiculous punishment. I've never been past level 92. I don't play meta builds. I basically do Solo-Self-Found even if that's not the league I officially signed up for. Between 90 and 92 is the point at which my builds cap out and I die enough that the game stops being fun and I move on. Often not playing for a league or 3.
The Archenemesis mods and reducing defenses is going in the wrong direction unless you also deal with the XP loss, which is a major UN-FUN factor. "Oh, I have 5 more portals... screw that, I'll try again with a different map." Is the goal to make sure that "casuals" can't see any of the "real" endgame content? Seems like it.
Basically, I'll probably never see any new content unless I give in and just run builds that exploit the hell out of the mechanics that currently exist and that other people put together, which eliminates one of the main reasons I like the game. However, it's going to be just the same thing over-and-over-and-over again because I'm not "elite" enough to deserve to see the rest of it.
Maybe what you need is a "Baby" mode with less XP loss (and potentially less abuse if you decide to keep jacking up the difficulty) so that those of us that just want to see the sights and enjoy ourselves can? At some point people will just decide that they've seen the same content enough times and just not come back.
Last edited by koratrice on Aug 7, 2022, 4:05:01 PM
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Posted bykoratriceon Aug 7, 2022, 3:38:42 PM
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"
I mean, to get at root causes, the ultimate problem is the XP scaling at the top end. Past level 90 it starts to take a LOT of XP to level, and a single death is demoralizing with how much wasted time happens. If you died 3-4 times in a map/scenario you weren't prepared for it can be enough to make you just walk away from the league.
While levelling, no one (but hardcore league) cares about a death here or there. Once you hit maps, it starts getting important. Once you get to red maps, it becomes something you start obsessing over.
And what's the result? Finding the golden zone where you don't die and can kill relatively fast. If you want people to play the way you'd like them to, you've got to quit with the ridiculous punishment. I've never been past level 92. I don't play meta builds. I basically do Solo-Self-Found even if that's not the league I officially signed up for. Between 90 and 92 is the point at which my builds cap out and I die enough that the game stops being fun and I move on. Often not playing for a league or 3.
The Archenemesis mods and reducing defenses is going in the wrong direction unless you also deal with the XP loss, which is a major UN-FUN factor. "Oh, I have 5 more portals... screw that, I'll try again with a different map." Is the goal to make sure that "casuals" can't see any of the "real" endgame content? Seems like it.
Basically, I'll probably never see any new content unless I give in and just run builds that exploit the hell out of the mechanics that currently exist and that other people put together, which eliminates one of the main reasons I like the game. However, it's going to be just the same thing over-and-over-and-over again because I'm not "elite" enough to deserve to see the rest of it.
Maybe what you need is a "Baby" mode with less XP loss (and potentially less abuse if you decide to keep jacking up the difficulty) so that those of us that just want to see the sights and enjoy ourselves can? At some point people will just decide that they've seen the same content enough times and just not come back.
I must simply disagree I don't have any trouble pushing builds to 95 which is basically the highest level you should need to finish your build. The long leveling of 95 to max is there as a massive stretch goal so you can benefit from your completed build in the long term as another incentive to keep playing past "completion".
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Posted byMasterKniveson Aug 7, 2022, 4:20:01 PM
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If there's no buffs to things in the patch notes I'm gonna say my playtime will be drastically decreased this next league. Seem like a lot of unfun changes and no upsides.
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Posted byKhalímon Aug 7, 2022, 9:33:52 PM
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GGG working furiously to reduce the amount of viable builds. People keep coming up with new ways to play, and they keep breaking them down.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. " ~ Hunter S Thompson ~
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Posted byMarinxaron Aug 8, 2022, 3:03:10 AM
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Posted byphatschtuffon Aug 8, 2022, 7:19:17 AM
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"
I mean, to get at root causes, the ultimate problem is the XP scaling at the top end. Past level 90 it starts to take a LOT of XP to level, and a single death is demoralizing with how much wasted time happens. If you died 3-4 times in a map/scenario you weren't prepared for it can be enough to make you just walk away from the league.
While levelling, no one (but hardcore league) cares about a death here or there. Once you hit maps, it starts getting important. Once you get to red maps, it becomes something you start obsessing over.
And what's the result? Finding the golden zone where you don't die and can kill relatively fast. If you want people to play the way you'd like them to, you've got to quit with the ridiculous punishment. I've never been past level 92. I don't play meta builds. I basically do Solo-Self-Found even if that's not the league I officially signed up for. Between 90 and 92 is the point at which my builds cap out and I die enough that the game stops being fun and I move on. Often not playing for a league or 3.
The Archenemesis mods and reducing defenses is going in the wrong direction unless you also deal with the XP loss, which is a major UN-FUN factor. "Oh, I have 5 more portals... screw that, I'll try again with a different map." Is the goal to make sure that "casuals" can't see any of the "real" endgame content? Seems like it.
Basically, I'll probably never see any new content unless I give in and just run builds that exploit the hell out of the mechanics that currently exist and that other people put together, which eliminates one of the main reasons I like the game. However, it's going to be just the same thing over-and-over-and-over again because I'm not "elite" enough to deserve to see the rest of it.
Maybe what you need is a "Baby" mode with less XP loss (and potentially less abuse if you decide to keep jacking up the difficulty) so that those of us that just want to see the sights and enjoy ourselves can? At some point people will just decide that they've seen the same content enough times and just not come back.
You are correct in 100% of this post. As a casual player who doesn't run league, the xp penalty is too much. While I do enjoy the game, I've never seen Elder... Uber Elder, Shaper etc. The game is just too punishing for folks just wanting to enjoy the content and the story without dying so much you can't progress. So I just quit and play something else. Perhaps that's what the devs want... to cater to the hardcore and only the hardcore? If that's the case, I don't see this game staying around with that type of mentality for long without new blood. Just saying.
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Posted byxiozenon Aug 8, 2022, 9:06:07 AM
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Another dead ascedancy in the trashcan next up is saboteur and champion cause there are no other playable ascedancies left anyways
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Posted byDragothjimon Aug 8, 2022, 10:05:47 AM
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"
I mean, to get at root causes, the ultimate problem is the XP scaling at the top end. Past level 90 it starts to take a LOT of XP to level, and a single death is demoralizing with how much wasted time happens. If you died 3-4 times in a map/scenario you weren't prepared for it can be enough to make you just walk away from the league.
While levelling, no one (but hardcore league) cares about a death here or there. Once you hit maps, it starts getting important. Once you get to red maps, it becomes something you start obsessing over.
And what's the result? Finding the golden zone where you don't die and can kill relatively fast. If you want people to play the way you'd like them to, you've got to quit with the ridiculous punishment. I've never been past level 92. I don't play meta builds. I basically do Solo-Self-Found even if that's not the league I officially signed up for. Between 90 and 92 is the point at which my builds cap out and I die enough that the game stops being fun and I move on. Often not playing for a league or 3.
The Archenemesis mods and reducing defenses is going in the wrong direction unless you also deal with the XP loss, which is a major UN-FUN factor. "Oh, I have 5 more portals... screw that, I'll try again with a different map." Is the goal to make sure that "casuals" can't see any of the "real" endgame content? Seems like it.
Basically, I'll probably never see any new content unless I give in and just run builds that exploit the hell out of the mechanics that currently exist and that other people put together, which eliminates one of the main reasons I like the game. However, it's going to be just the same thing over-and-over-and-over again because I'm not "elite" enough to deserve to see the rest of it.
Maybe what you need is a "Baby" mode with less XP loss (and potentially less abuse if you decide to keep jacking up the difficulty) so that those of us that just want to see the sights and enjoy ourselves can? At some point people will just decide that they've seen the same content enough times and just not come back.
I totally agree.
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Posted byYuguzuon Aug 8, 2022, 10:17:26 AM
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TLDR: in 6 months the balance team didn't do shit, just quickly put together a lazy work in a week and this is what we have. On the brighter side, the Kirac's pass will definetly be on point with the couple of buffed non-shit uniques! XD
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Posted byMelkor25on Aug 8, 2022, 11:36:11 AM
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