Diablo Immortal coming to PC

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Probably would agree that we are mostly likely at an impasse here.

That said I dont really agree that the "consumer" can play the victim card here, with no accountability of their actions, their spending habits, or managing their own personal expectations.

This notion that people were actually shocked by this monetization model are either lying, or so completely ignorant of economic realities, that not taking them seriously is probably the kindest response.

I suppose I agree this goes both ways in fielding expectations though. Blizzard and Wyatt had to know some of this blowback was coming. But again the selective outrage at Blizzard and DI compared to the rest of the mobile market makes no sense imo.

Seriously though, ignoring DI is far and away better than elimination or cancellation. It's a reductive outcome that in the end benefits very few. It's ok to say DI isnt for me, it's quite another to say it shouldn't exist and neither should the folks making it. That's anti-capitalist nonsense, and the mob reaction escalations in recent years (in many areas) is deeply troubling.

You're still refusing to approach this from a legal/legislative point of view, which...is absolutely the crux of the impasse. If someone can (and should) deem what Blizzard doing as a crime, and legislate it as such, then no one is 'playing the victim card' (did you really have to use that terminology? It's awful). Then it simply becomes a matter of figuring out how to rein this shit in. Until then, you can bang on about personal responsibility (still) and I can (but probably won't) bang on about ethical limitations even in F2P gaming.

This really isn't about who saw it coming -- we all saw it coming. The shock, you should know by now, is not at the 'what' but at the 'how' and the magnitude of it. Perhaps again being an Exile has conditioned you to think only in a binary here: p2w and not-p2w. Resist that. Think of the scale. And then realise that DI is not just off the scale, it's on a whole other playing field. That is how different it is to other 'p2w' f2p mobile games. The people shocked at it aren't just naïve PC gamers; it's Genshin players, gacha veterans. Those who thought they'd somehow assimilated into their idea of 'gaming' the limits of p2w and how to maximise that without going broke.

And with the revelation that free to play drop rates get hard capped in DI, we just have further proof of how different DI really is. It didn't just overdo one highly unethical angle of f2p (monetising the endgame loop with a ceiling over $100k), it added another one that most developers have to actively deny doing: manipulated drop rates.

I suspect your choice to 'ignore' that level of scum from Blizzard is ultimately self-defence. A coping mechanism. Because the more a 'normal' gamer looks at it, the more it genuinely comes across as an attempt at undermining so many things that are implicit between developer and gamer. And, as I noted, some things that have to be explicit too.

It's fine to know when a fight isn't yours, and to not play so-called SJW by taking up someone else's cause uninvited. But this is a pretty concerted assault on what we, gamers, accept as a business model for games. Ignore it if you want, because you're almost certainly right: smartest thing to do from an individual perspective. But equally, avoid actively condemning anyone who doesn't ignore it. If you want to be truly reductive about it, they are fighting for you as a gamer who shouldn't tolerate such a blatant breach of acceptable game design.


There's also the larger and likely very dangerous question (at least here) of whether capitalism is anti-democratic IF the individual consumer's contribution (or conscientious lack thereof) doesn't affect a product's success at some higher level (eg PoE as a streaming show rather than an actual game held up by its player-supporters). So we'll bench that, I think.

There are plenty of examples of inappropriate review bombing. Can't deny that. But I'd say they're as toothless as the appropriate ones -- some internet version of tabloid site might gossip about it for a bit but chances are it won't affect the performance of that product. Common sense (we're back to that) dictates that the majority of consumers ignore gossip, are indeed swayed by professional reviews, but ultimately believe the choice is theirs. Usually that choice is merely 'consume' or 'ignore', regardless of whatever else is said or done before or after that.

And if all review bombs are toothless, then again: let people do the same to DI if it helps them cope with that which you're choosing to ignore.

Look: it's all going to fizzle either way. Either DI will prove a failure in the West and ignoring it was the right choice, OR any sort of outrage will fizzle in the face of you and yours who say 'just ignore it' and Blizzard get away with it.

Just as long as you are aware that you're ignoring something unprecedented in Western gaming. That this isn't about the fact that Diablo Immortal is P2W as was completely expected, but that its methods of P2W, the audacity of its scope and greed, are absolutely worthy of shock and disgust.

People who never had any intentions of playing Immortal seem to be the most vocal. Its pretty funny

The game is free to play, you are not forced to buy anything. There is nothing illegal, the contract you enter is soley your disgression.

Entitlement is strong with these redditor's