[3.15 HC] Apep's Forbidden Rite Totems (Hierophant) Solid Budget Early League

Alright, I think my character is done for now. T16 is a breeze; A8 Sirius is still a problem because I suck at the fight more than anything else (I cannot get the teleport beam timing down).

Since I play on SC, modified things around to give more damage. I also picked up multi totems and dropped volley. I found this gave a much smoother playstyle and was nice in giving you two totems to taunt on a single cast.

Gear below:




Still plenty of room for upgrades (gems, jewels, etc), but thinking about moving onto a character to do some serious boss killing.
PoB DPS I think is roughly 3M.

Is a Wither totem really that much of a DPS boost compared to an extra FR totem?

Re: wither Totem

Short Answer: yes

Long Answer: An extra FR totem isn't a dps boost compared to the set up using a wither totem. In order to get another FR totem, you would need to slot multiple totem support instead of a damage boosting gem.

Math: If the damage boosting gem would have given another 25% damage we can call your relative damage per totem on 4 totems. 1.25x. With Multiple totems slotted, at lvl 20, your damage will be .79x. But then (you may ask) don't you then get up to 6 FR totems? Which takes your damage back to 1.185x, for a slight overall increase?

Yes, but

1. To get that increase you have now lost the use of your decoy and wither totems.

2. When bossing with 4 FR, 1 decoy and 1 wither, the wither totem will maintain a full 15 stacks of wither, which is a 90% MORE damage multiplier, giving a total base damage of 2.375x while allowing you defense from the decoy. This is around double the overall damage than you get in the setup without the wither or decoy totem. (It's even more of a difference if your plan was to go only 5 FR and keep a decoy) Leave aside the part that without the decoy totem, the build will feel MUCH more fragile.

Hope that clears it up.

-O

Hi
I have some issues with this guild/guide unfortunately...

The best starting gem/skill wasn't really precised and I needed decoy totem to get out of Act 1-4 safely, very useful gem in HC but since I can only use one totem I used Sormblast mines instead. Now I have to take ancestral bond in the tree without viable damage through totem.

I went to take Agnostic before Ancestral bond and I didn't get enough mana regen to sustain plenty to hits, so I refunded it. Mind over matter only was better at first in my opinion (Agnostic + MoM drain too much mana while leaving life almost untouched, while MoM splat the damage received in 2, life and mana)

The build isn't SSF friendly because of the 4-5 uniques needed, it would be great to precise it in a little pro&con summary.

On the first PoB tree,the skill section doesn't seem clear to me, for example there's 3 unactivated lines, and Forbidden rite is only 5-linked, what would be the best 6L for it? And Flame dash and decoy totem + multiple totem are on the same item (weapon) but they are on different lines...

You indicate Void sphere or Void manipulation "for your own amusement" but it would be great to know what skill/support would be most adapted and why.. People are looking for guides to be able to follow them, not to guess them

I thank you for you effort in making a guide for other players, but I feel like it could be improved and more detailed. For example you recommend decoy totem + multiple totem but why ? I only use one and I re-summon it once it's destroyed or expired and that seems enough for now.

As a result I'm stuck on a situation where I just simply don't know what to do with my character... probably I'll have to level up another skill to pair it with totem and hope the damage output is enough for taking Ancestral bond. Once this notable taken I can only deal damage through them.

Re needing more detail.

ok. I have been returning to this thread regularly to answer questions for people having any difficulties all league. I am unable to anticipate all of the potential issues that people will have or why they have them. Sometimes it's because I've left something out, and I will often go update the guide. Sometimes it's because they haven't followed the instructions given, and then I am happy to help try to figure out where they went wrong.

So Let's look at your situation:

1. First, I'll be honest, given the number of required uniques, it did not occur to me that someone would be trying to do this build ssf. Section 2 of the leveling advice given makes clear what uniques you'll want to have solid damage while leveling. I cannot recommend FR as a leveling skill for a first character ssf.

2. The leveling section is clear about what links to use. Perhaps you were trying to follow the guide using only the POB and without reading the whole guide?

3. The guide specifically directs you to go to Ancestral bond first, not to route down to Agnostic. You are correct that taking Agnostic too early will not be workable. I had thought that it would be common sense to take the mana nodes in that lvl 49 tree prior to going MOM/Agnostic, but this appears to be error on my part. I will update that advice.

4. I find Void sphere to be a useful defensive gem, as it affects the mob's movement in a way that is protective if you are moving away. I also find it entertaining. My intent has always been that these guides be a jumping off point for people. When I post a guide on a new skill early in the league, it would be the height of arrogance for me to assume that I already knew what was best for that build in every situation. I learn as I go, both from playing and from feedback from the community. What I post is one set-up that I found enjoyable for people to take and further create from.

5. Why Multiple totem with decoy totem: This is a totally fair question and I am happy to help you understand. If you don't use the multiple totem support, then the decoy totem will use one of the pool of 4 available totems for FR. you will end up with 2 wither, 1 decoy and 3 FR. If you use the multiple totem support, the decoy totem will use the supplemental pool provided by the multiple totem support, because you can only cast one decoy at a time anyway, you can have a fighting setup of 1 wither, 1 decoy and 4 FR. You obtain this by first casting the wither totems (summoning 2), Casting the decoy, then casting 4 FR totems. The 4th FR totem will cause one of the Wither totems to disappear, as you are trying to exceed the 6 totem limit, leaving you with 1 wither, 1 decoy, and 4 FR. This is much easier to do than it is to describe.

Wishing you a better experience,

-O

Great build. but would you please have a leveling section for league starter or SSF would like to try this build at league start :D

First of all, thanks a lot for the build - it's running well for the budget and has just been a blast - I am using a slightly modified version with Viridi's Veil for hexproof.

I am currently running a Trolltimber Spire instead of a second Apep's, as the damage feels there as it is and I tend to die a lot less during mapping (still need to get around using Decoy Totem effectively - and do a few upgrades, including on gems).

However, I am tempted to look at a rare shield with +1 to maximum summoned totems. Right now I have 4 FR, 1 Decoy and 1 Wither totem when mapping. Will another +1 to max totems get me to 5 FR / 1 Decoy / 1 Wither? If it does, that should logically boost my dps, but it does not on POB (it remains flat). Is there something I am missing?

Thank you

It's been a while since I used a +1 shield, but I seem to recall it wont raise the overall number of totems from 6 to 7. What you will end up with is up to 5 FR and either a decoy or a wither, at the cost of the damage you give up from the extra wand. Not worth imo, ymmv.

-O

Re leveling as ssf or leaguestart.
With apologies, this aspect is not really my strength, But I found today on YouTube a video in which Zizaran walks step by step through leveling this type of build. I may be able to find the link later, but I believe a search for Zizaran caster leveling should turn it up. This is very much his department.

-O

Thanks a lot Orion, will aim for two wands then.

On levelling btw, one other option is going Holy Flame Totems up until you can equip the Soul Mantle and Kikazarus at level 49. I went this route having the Holy Flames Totem / Added Fire Damage / Infused Channelling support in 3L as this was my first totem build so wanted to get used to totems from the outset. If you want to go totems from the very start, that could be a good option also (although I am sure Ziz's builds are way faster!)