Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

It's pretty clear that not a single Dev actually plays the current version of PoE.

Sure, I remember back in the day when you used eternal orbs / exalted orbs to craft your endgame equipment. But for the most part, that gear was very close to the powerful uniques at the time and so crafting endgame rares that way was really just min/maxing.

BUT that was also a much much much smaller game, and took far less time to create builds that could conquer all content. Nowadays, you basically need the tippy tippy top of the line gear to even do the endgame content of each new league. Harvest was the biggest and BEST fix for all the casual players that can only spend 2-3 hours max per day (if that) playing the game. A broader playerbase could access content on their own during the 3-month league schedule.

It seems like Chris only cares about the streamers and ultra-wealthy, no-life gamers that play PoE 12+ hours every single day. I mean the current league fiasco proves this even furhter. But they are actively breaking their own game to cater to the end-end-end-game that 90% of players will never ever get to reach without easier crafting and deterministic outcomes.

Biggest mistake of any game is continuously focusing only on the endgame and doing nothing to help out the early/mid/early-late gamers which are the vast majority of the player base. Making more powerful items accessible and craftable for more players is a GODDAMN GOOD THING. F Your philosphy, it makes no sense

Just dropped in too say Thank you Chris! Iam Very glad you lowered the ceiling and raised the floor! Iam all ready getting better items... I bought the top supporter pack and Mavin's Atlas devise :) Hopefully Iam not the only main stream player that is very pleased with everything you have done to make the game so much more fun THX AGAIN!!!

It's alright, I guess

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jsuslak313 wrote:

It seems like Chris only cares about the streamers and ultra-wealthy, no-life gamers that play PoE 12+ hours every single day.

And they base patches and nerfs around those players. Not the other 95% of the players that play this game and struggle.
Like I've said before and many others have said, they are so disconnected with the player base it's unreal.
In their eyes it would take the regular player 2+ full solid months of 10 hour days to achieve a max potential build and gear. But now we have to resort to builds with just ok gear and hope for the best.


Yeah that's how you win over players and keep them on the hook.... /s

The Harvest nerfs are even worse than they mentioned in the Manifesto.

It feels genuinely depressing seeing the Grove in a map now.

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seandkiller wrote:

The Harvest nerfs are even worse than they mentioned in the Manifesto.

It feels genuinely depressing seeing the Grove in a map now.

i know the feeling. with the state that harvest is in now, it honestly should be removed. i've had 12 so far and not a single useful craft. it's sad to see harvest reduced to what it is now

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spaceace7373 wrote:

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seandkiller wrote:

The Harvest nerfs are even worse than they mentioned in the Manifesto.

It feels genuinely depressing seeing the Grove in a map now.

i know the feeling. with the state that harvest is in now, it honestly should be removed. i've had 12 so far and not a single useful craft. it's sad to see harvest reduced to what it is now

Before the nerfs, Harvest was very common to find, so that not having a good craft most of the times was fine.

Now with the lower appearances of Harvest, plus the further nerfs it feels like a useless league just like prophecy, exiles and tempest. But they nerfed all league mechanics, I am doing heist and I am like "why waste my time for 1 alt and 2 Transmutes"...

I dont understand why we cant find things while playing, why do we have to trade?

rip harvest and tft still rules economy

ps bots also rampage

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illdyking wrote:

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Obright wrote:

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illdyking wrote:

Why do people whine so much.

You can probably beat most of the game on SC with 50C gear, you dont need harvest gear for that.

I mean, you got 6 rips, 6 portal.

TRANSLATION: "Why do people want to keep playing after they beat act 10? Who do they think they are?"

Maybe they are just sick of hitting a brick wall unless they play an expensive meta build?

One of the problems we've been discussing in here is player retention, and frustration with not being able to participate in the endgame. It's one of the reasons why new leagues peter out after 2 weeks, and why leagues with harvest crafting last longer.

Your post literally supports the position you claim to oppose.

...Dude, harvest league was the shortest league of all leagues.

https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#1y

That first hump represents the peak player numbers of Harvest league on the steam client (125,432). Notice how the number of players tapers down at a fairly natural, normal rate. Now look at the next league, Heist. It's the one without any Harvest mechanic. Not only did it cap out at fewer people (121,595), look at how it flat-lined completely until the next new league began. That flat-line represents standard league, the only constant pool of players this game has. That's how bad Heist league player retention was.

Now look at the next league with the Maven (and more importantly the harvest mechanic). If you'll notice, not only does it retain players for longer, it peaks at over 157k players.

...But here are the most important points:

Look how player numbers fell, just after this announcement dropped. Those player numbers were the lowest since 2016. What that means is that the nerfs actually shook standard league, which is really saying something.

Yes they came back up at the beginning of this league, but look how sharply they have already dropped. That is more than just remarkable, it is without precedent in the history of this game.

People logged in to see if GGG really went through with nuking harvest, saw that it was actually even worse than anticipated, and just quit. There was absolutely zero endgame content to entice people to stay, so...

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Obright wrote:

https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#1y

That first hump represents the peak player numbers of Harvest league (125,432). Notice how the number of players tapers down at a fairly natural, normal rate. Now look at the next league, Heist. It's the one without any Harvest mechanic. Not only did it cap out at fewer people (121,595), look at how it flatlined completely until the next new league began. That flatline represents standard league, the only constant pool of players this game has. That's how bad Heist league player retention was.

Now look at the next league with the Maven (and more importantly the harvest mechanic). If you'll notice, not only does it retain players for longer, it peaks at over 157k players.

...But here are the most important points:

Look how player numbers fell, just after this announcement dropped. Those player numbers are the lowest since 2016. What that means is that the nerfs actually shook standard league, which is really saying something.

Yes they came back up at the beginning of this league, but look how sharply they have already dropped. That is more than just remarkable, it is without precedent in the history of this game.

looks like a really good increase for Last Epoch. huge increase in numbers

https://steamcharts.com/app/899770

i've seen so many good items get bricked over the last couple days and people not being able to progress. it's not possible for me to even finish my gear without massive amounts of currency to buy the decent items. i just can't progress without mindlessly grinding maps for hours on end with little reward to try to collect the currency. progress stops and people get tired of it and move on to other games.

i only play standard and have noticed a huge change in player numbers, an influx of new players and they don't seem to stick around very long. yes, there are lifers that will always be there with their "i'm better than noobs" attitude telling new players if they want help to go play league. my play time has decreased to about half of what it was. i really want to finish my build to actually get into the endgame bosses. harvest needs to be fixed as even i have passed it up a couple times now which is sad because harvest is really the only reason i play.

my first time playing was the last 2.5 weeks of harvest league. i made it to level 80, had the grove completely filled and could farm all tier seeds. complicated as hell to set up and connect everything. it was interesting, involving, challenging to set up and harvest to say the least. loved it. then the league ended and heist happened.

i played the whole heist league and hated it. i only played in hopes harvest would come back, which it did. at first, i was getting at least 2-3 harvests a day with 20-30ish maps which made the grind fun. then it was like driving into a concrete wall and the harvest spawns all but stopped. day after day of grinding over 600 maps while only getting 5 harvests is truly pathetic spawn rates.

i play standard because i don't like to keep starting over. i also play the build i use because i like it and it's fun. i have put some of my real money into this game for stash tabs to make playing a little better. but when you can't progress without mindless grinding playing like the game is a job 12-14 hours a day... at some point, you just get tired of it and walk away...