⛵☁️[3.25] The Arachnophobia Allstars| Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 150M+
Could anyone give any tips what to get next? Should I save up for iron reflexes (.. usually 40 ex :( )? Cant remove self control cuz I dont have enough reservation efficiency and I think the attack block is better than 300-400 es As well as getting endurance charges from deflection feels nice.
Last edited by ezakhiel#5148 on Nov 14, 2021, 4:09:24 AM
1. Cold Iron Point vs Arakaali's Fang.
CIP a pretty viable alternative at some point, being budget and gameplay friendly.
When it is best to use CIP:
Spoiler
Mid-budget.
There is a huge damage breakpoint of Herald of Agony at lvl 31, with CIP it can be achieved for a lot cheaper:
- The skin of the Lords (+2)
- Empower lvl 3 (+4) or Awakened minion damage lvl 3 (+1) + Empower lvl 2 (+3)
- Chaos Mastery on the passive tree (+1)
- HoAg lvl 21 (lvl 20 is doable if u have both Empower lvl 3 and Aw minion damage lvl 3)
- CIP (+3)
At this point, when you can get hoag lvl 31 with CIP and cannot with AF, the damage gap between CIP and Arakaali's Fang is the lowest with just ~10%.
Pros and cons of CIP vs AF:
+ No spiders gameplay (This is insanely big QoL for those who can't get used to spiders summoning).
+ Free flask slot. Many options here.
- Damage is still lower
- Wither + spell totem + multiple totems is a must-have for bosses, but it dies fast.
- Chain (Awakened) or fork (Awakened) support is required instead of the pierce - more mana problems. I elaborate on this below.
- No onslaught.
When it is best to use Arakaali's Fang:
Spoiler
Low budget and High budget.
On a low budget, just 3-link spiders will do more damage than your entire 6-link HoAg (no skin of the lords, no empower, no awakened gems, no chaos mastery, etc). So, it must be a chase item early.
On a high budget, when you can get lvl 31 hoag using AF, it overshadows CIP by a very huge margin (~20%) again.
Pros and cons of AF vs CIP:
+ More damage anyway.
+ Pierce is fine, spiders finish damaged monsters.
+ Reliable Wither (spiders don't die), and apply it all time.
+ Onslaught
- Clunky. I elaborate on how to deal with it below.
- More expensive. 4ex week 1? 1ex week 3? CIP price got down for 10 times already.
Well, the most clunky part of this build. No need to deny it, bc it's obvious. Even I felt really bad with the default self-casting setup at first, so I had to find alternatives last league.
Spoiler
To summon spiders there are 2 conditions required:
1. Corpses nearby.
2. Kill.
You won't summon spiders if you just press flask and kill worms w/o corpses around. You won't summon any spiders if enemies or allies kill worms first.
The normal way to summon spiders is:
I. Desecrate, twice (or in the middle of the dead pack).
II. Kill worms.
But, in normal circumstances this feels clunky af, bc u had to stop ur mapping to summon worms pretty often, right?
Or are you getting pissed by failing to summon for whatever reason? No corpses, no kills, enemies and crawler around hunting YOUR worms, etc.
I know how it feels, bro.
And here are BEST ways to deal with it:
Spoiler
1. Cold Iron Point. No spiders - no problem, right? Most obvious solution. Trading a bit of damage for QoL. It's reasonable, doable, why not.
2. Gravebind. Budget mapping option, very good. Literally, a lifesaver on early mapping.
Why:
Spoiler
With them, HoAg will summon spiders, spiders will summon spiders, your party will summon spiders, etc.
The downside is - bossing damage of HoAg will be low, bc gravebind is bad for virulence uptime.
Well, early spiders will do more damage than HoAg anyway, and with the Gravebind, your spiders' uptime is 100%. If not - press some flask from time to time.
3. Culling strike. This was the best solution prior to 3.16, before gravebind was introduced.
Explanation:
Spoiler
Culling strike helps you to get kills for summoning spiders.
Also, it can be either the cheapest solution with just culling strike support skill gem, or the most expensive one with double influenced gloves, which allows 1 button gameplay:
There was an entire page with the discussion of culling strike/cyclone gloves with some videos of virulence uptime with the different skill gems at the end of the page:
4. Unbound Ailments instead of Minion Damage in Arakaali's Fang. Chromino, please.
How it works:
Spoiler
UA support increases the Poison damage of the spiders, as a result - more enemies die by poison applied by spiders - and it counts as you get the kill in this case, which fulfills the second condition of summoning.
Also, Unbound Ailments is 15% stronger than minion damage support for spiders. In all cases, even if enemies have strong chaos resistance. Again, Chromino, please.
Bonus: Corpsewalker boots.
They automate desecrate (creating corpses out of the air), but in short - not worth it. Boots slot is too precious to waste it on corpsewalkers.
Chain (awakened) Support > Fork Support (awakened) > Pierce (anomalous) Support.
Chain is absolutely best for mapping, but it's mana multiplier like pierce + vicious proj both.
The awakened fork is a "budget" thing for CiP, but it is still undeniably better than pierce, bc CiP has no spiders to kill damaged mobs.
Pierce is ok. Yep. The best single target out of 3, and the easiest to fit.
For AF:
Spoiler
Read for CiP above and git gud
Hi monik390, thank you again!
I added and switched in already awakened unbound ailments for the spider-supports, they raise the damage nice 0.5M and more, and copy your guide to autoraised spiders etc. on page 50 and will add the link to your post in the guide soon.
Thank you very much! Great optimizations and a lot good stuff!!!
@Chromino — I have a question about your pob-gem-links and aura setups.
You have Determination disabled on your pob on final links, why so? I don't think that we can survive good without it :)
I can't find any place to fit Tempest Shield there — with Determination, Clarity, Discipline and HoA (Grace has no reserve cause of Aul's). :(
https://soundcloud.com/allumino
Last edited by allumino#0850 on Nov 14, 2021, 5:07:11 AM
Hi again Chromino :)
1st of all : aint that a nice piece for 31 hoa? :)
21 hoa + emp + awake added fire + awak added chaos + awake minion damage + vile toxins/awake vici proj? ;)
pretty decent i would say, meaby not optimised dmg wise, but still, we get to the breakpoint of 31 :)
2nd, i would like to share my build, i changed few things, and still hoping to change one of the rings to instead of other with curse :)
Manage to get ali immune, with some minor effort too :D https://pastebin.com/N5swuiKR
Hope you would like it and if you got any advices, i would be happy to recive them!
Cheers and let us crawl :)
Edit: I may went too far with spell block :D
Meaby drop few nodes to get those points elsewhere?
Hi oskurwensyn,
when I checked correct, you get the strong op 100% immunities from boots, arcane sanctuary and very nice belt-jewel. Great!
You deactivated unnatural calm and the es-mastery and loose 700 es instead.
But you don't use the 20% of shield mastery or does pob not show correct? Of course your immunities would be overcapped, but poe flat/ round up 95% to 100%. Yeeah, also with some implicits on jewels/ clusters you reach fast 80-100% permamanet immunities. Of course often ignites kill you or freezes of shaper, but you can defend on flasks, shield mastery, etc. too.
It's hard to decide which boots are b.i.s. and if arcane sanctuary is nice to take in. They are very strong possibilities and frees up flasks-suffixes too...
@Chromino — I have a question about your pob-gem-links and aura setups.
You have Determination disabled on your pob on final links, why so? I don't think that we can survive good without it :)
I can't find any place to fit Tempest Shield there — with Determination, Clarity, Discipline and HoA (Grace has no reserve cause of Aul's). :(
Hi allumino,
no, determination is activated first. Perhaps when you switched the itemsets in pob it's deactivated and you have to activate it manually.
In "gear, skills, links" you find the best order for auras:
I advice to activate your auras in the order:
1) determination: tankyness
2) vaal discipline: as CI
3) clarity only with watcher's eye mod: for es
4) grace (possible without aul's uprising with rare helmet and sublime form or with aul's uprising)
5) (divergent) tempest shield: automatic virulences qol, spellblock, for fullblock edition
6) For damage instead grace: hatred (with replica hyrri's truth or aul's uprising)
7) For damage instead tempest shield: shocking skitterbots
It's hard to get the granted determination on shield implicit. Before you can use the spoiler "skillmanager" to get 14 other ways to a free skillsocket or take a granted skill on a rare amulet or like in your set-up with an unset ring.
Last edited by Chromino#4813 on Nov 14, 2021, 5:30:56 AM
1) determination: tankyness
2) vaal discipline: as CI
3) clarity only with watcher's eye mod: for es
4) grace (possible without aul's uprising with rare helmet and sublime form or with aul's uprising)
5) (divergent) tempest shield: automatic virulences qol, spellblock, for fullblock edition
6) For damage instead grace: hatred (with replica hyrri's truth or aul's uprising)
7) For damage instead tempest shield: shocking skitterbots
It's hard to get the granted determination on shield implicit. Before you can use the spoiler "skillmanager" to get 14 other ways to a free skillsocket or take a granted skill on a rare amulet or like in your set-up with an unset ring.
I'm still sniping those Auroras with Determination on market. They're rare and cost a lot, and I already bricked ton of my own Auroras :D But that's completely understandable process.
I just can't activate Tempest Shield even without clarity, it's too much manareserve. Maybe I need to use enlighten somewhere in aura setup =\
1) determination: tankyness
2) vaal discipline: as CI
3) clarity only with watcher's eye mod: for es
4) grace (possible without aul's uprising with rare helmet and sublime form or with aul's uprising)
5) (divergent) tempest shield: automatic virulences qol, spellblock, for fullblock edition
6) For damage instead grace: hatred (with replica hyrri's truth or aul's uprising)
7) For damage instead tempest shield: shocking skitterbots
It's hard to get the granted determination on shield implicit. Before you can use the spoiler "skillmanager" to get 14 other ways to a free skillsocket or take a granted skill on a rare amulet or like in your set-up with an unset ring.
I'm still sniping those Auroras with Determination on market. They're rare and cost a lot, and I already bricked ton of my own Auroras :D But that's completely understandable process.
I just can't activate Tempest Shield even without clarity, it's too much manareserve. Maybe I need to use enlighten somewhere in aura setup =\
Take a look at the spoiler "manamanager".
You can activate 2 points (not only 1) "sovereignity", use divine orbs and fertile catalysts on the circle of nostalgia, take increased efficiency on the transferpassive of cluster determination, and the energy-shield-mastery with increased efficiencies of discipline.
But at last with only 1 circle of nostalgia probably you need to switch memory vault to a rare helmet or take in 3 passives "presage" and you will have enough mana for all auras.
Last edited by Chromino#4813 on Nov 14, 2021, 6:02:52 AM
Hi again Chromino :)
1st of all : aint that a nice piece for 31 hoa? :)
21 hoa + emp + awake added fire + awak added chaos + awake minion damage + vile toxins/awake vici proj? ;)
pretty decent i would say, meaby not optimised dmg wise, but still, we get to the breakpoint of 31 :)
2nd, i would like to share my build, i changed few things, and still hoping to change one of the rings to instead of other with curse :)
Manage to get ali immune, with some minor effort too :D https://pastebin.com/N5swuiKR
Hope you would like it and if you got any advices, i would be happy to recive them!
Cheers and let us crawl :)
Edit: I may went too far with spell block :D
Meaby drop few nodes to get those points elsewhere?
Hi oskurwensyn,
when I checked correct, you get the strong op 100% immunities from boots, arcane sanctuary and very nice belt-jewel. Great!
You deactivated unnatural calm and the es-mastery and loose 700 es instead.
But you don't use the 20% of shield mastery or does pob not show correct? Of course your immunities would be overcapped, but poe flat/ round up 95% to 100%. Yeeah, also with some implicits on jewels/ clusters you reach fast 80-100% permamanet immunities. Of course often ignites kill you or freezes of shaper, but you can defend on flasks, shield mastery, etc. too.
It's hard to decide which boots are b.i.s. and if arcane sanctuary is nice to take in. They are very strong possibilities and frees up flasks-suffixes too...
Very nice pob and great variation!
Ye, i got no shield mastery, cuz i got full 100% avoidance - on boots, jewel and 20 in arcane sancturary + 2 on grace
Pob must show something weird, cuz i got unnatural calm currently at 7462 es - respec arcane guarding tho, cuz i got too much block chance 82/75 with flaks up.
Last edited by oskurwensyn#3329 on Nov 14, 2021, 6:09:54 AM
Could anyone give any tips what to get next? Should I save up for iron reflexes (.. usually 40 ex :( )? Cant remove self control cuz I dont have enough reservation efficiency and I think the attack block is better than 300-400 es As well as getting endurance charges from deflection feels nice.
Hi ezakhiel,
before iron reflexes "ghost dance" with grace is a strong keystone for some more recovery and you get it cheap on skin of the lords or with 4 passives. I would try to take it in.
A belt with armour and gloves with es would be nice. On the long road your 5.7k es are not enough. You can raise it with watcher's eye, "foresight" on amulet, arcane focus, best is in your set-up split personalities.
It's always a question of balances - do you prefer some more blocks or more es, more damage or more defences etc... but below 7.3 k es you get in red t16 maps sometimes one- or two shotted, you need more es mandatory for higher levels or instead have to reroll very often map-mods.
Not all of these are like build breaking bad though.
Unwavering Stance before getting Aul's and Grace. There won't be any evasion anyways and can just use cwdt instead of cws for triggers.
Resolute technique doesn't hurt either as lack of BL crits doesn't mean much?
Versatile combatant is direct buff to block chances atleast with rare boots yes? Very strong with +attack block while affected by determination and +attack block scourged mod on shield before managing to get that determination corruption. Saves couple of chaos on Rumi's aswell as you can look up one with high AB only. To hell with it, almost want to swap my iron reflexes to Versatile combatant after writing all this as it feels that I am still severely lacking in blocks.
Wind dancer -20% dmg taken from first hit as there wont be any evasion without Grace anyways. Aul's is expensive.
Ofc its all about what they cost aswell, atleast my unwavering stance version carried me just fine for couple weeks and was dirt cheap
I corrected Resolute technique, thank you Tarzanlepa.
