Why the XP penalty?

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j33bus wrote:

They want a way to encourage people to not do content that is too hard for them.

Unfortunately for the most part death in PoE feels arbitrary and malicious on the side of the devs. Due to the lack of feedback on how to improve in the game, by not revealing anything about how you died, the idea of using death as a learning tool is quite lost here.

Thats an excellent point! So often I try to figure out what killed me but, you simply can't tell. Some things in the game one shot you and makes you scratch your head. When you are resist capped, have at least 4-5k health etc and wonder how can I get one shot? If we had a log of what killed us it would help us develop our builds better, or at least adjust as needed.

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xspawnx wrote:

Thats an excellent point! So often I try to figure out what killed me but, you simply can't tell. Some things in the game one shot you and makes you scratch your head. When you are resist capped, have at least 4-5k health etc and wonder how can I get one shot? If we had a log of what killed us it would help us develop our builds better, or at least adjust as needed.

See this is a fundamental problem with the players. 99% of sc players don't know how to build into proper defense. If you only have 4-5k hp at that high of a level you might a well not even invest into hp at all.

If you guys think the game constantly throws random bullshit deaths, watch some top hc streamers. Eg alkiezer, dirtydan, steelmage, etc. These guys don't randomly die like you see everyone in sc. If they DO die, its because of a dc or they stepped into something that was obviously high risk (for example, opening 10 spear throwing rares in a legion).

I think the worst part is this whole idea of building glass cannon is a self perpetuating problem. It's easier to build glass cannon than it is to actually learn to balance character building. So that is what everyone does, they essentially give up on balanced builds even though it works.

XP penalty is the check that all builds have to pass. Removing it will have major consequences to build diversity and kill off almost all defensive builds and defense mechanics.

The game has a wide variety of builds. What is a one-shot to a 4k hp player and seems like BS to them, doesn't even bother or get noticed by seasoned player with defenses. Removing the penalty will make defense obsolete since it's possible to offscreen everything in the game as it currently is. 6 portals will be enough to clear all content with a glass cannon build. Players are already one-shotting endgame bosses this league (with non glass cannons) so we have a lot of damage available.

Edit:: wtf happened to my post? I had a few paragraphs, submitted it, and the post was completely blank.

Not gonna write it again.

Are you following a build guide? Your gear choices puzzles me, like why are you using The Surrender on your Necro? Also surely you can get a much better wand than what you're currently using that shouldn't cost much to buy or craft. Too many dead stats on your other gear slots as well. Amulet for instance. Flat cold to attacks does nothing for your VD, cast speed also does nothing since you aren't casting. Ele damage to attack stats also does nothing for you. You don't need to use 2 life flasks as well.

There are plenty of things you can change without much hassle at this point in the league and you're gonna fly through to level 93 easy.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

XP penalty is the check that all builds have to pass. Removing it will have major consequences to build diversity and kill off almost all defensive builds and defense mechanics.

The game has a wide variety of builds. What is a one-shot to a 4k hp player and seems like BS to them, doesn't even bother or get noticed by seasoned player with defenses. Removing the penalty will make defense obsolete since it's possible to offscreen everything in the game as it currently is. 6 portals will be enough to clear all content with a glass cannon build. Players are already one-shotting endgame bosses this league (with non glass cannons) so we have a lot of damage available.

This makes great sense to me because of how this game was designed. It forces you to rethink and focus.

I played a bunch of original EverQuest and if you died you had a xp loss and had to go retrieve your body to get back half the xp you lost. If you died again retrieving your body same thing.

So either give up or try to group up with somebody to retrieve it. It was a game designed for grouping and tackling content together rather than solo.

I like penalities in games as long as they make sense. It jives with the "hardcore" crowd for a lack of a better term.

Diablo 3 have(or had, idk been quite a while... dunno if the fixed it in the last 3-ish years) no xp penalty and you only lose time to complete the rift when you die

Its also a game where 100% damage and no defence is absolutely king, because when you can just zerg your way tro the game with no punishment from it, why bother defending? Just go ham on killspeed and you can make up for the time penalty, death is chep anyway

So simply put: You need some form of punishment from death or death(and every form of defense by extension) become meaningless

And nope, loss of portals cant be the only penalty, esp now that high tier maps are so common, one, two or even tree less portals often dont mean anything: you can still pick up everything that appears tro the lootfilter and still make profit from the map. Penalty for failure need to be something that exceeds a single sucess else, you wont be discouraged to keep avoiding it(a more fair compensations would be remove every loot and currency you got since you opened the map you died on and close all remaining portals, but i suppose nobody would want that)

The title question has been answered several times. You can agree or disagree, but all the reasons why we have a death penalty, have been posted.

People are focusing too much on the direct effect of the penalty; losing 10% of your XP. No one likes that. But that's not the point here. No one likes to die either (or they shouldn't like it), but it's still a consequence.

The indirect values of the death penalty are what matters. How it forces you to build better characters, forcing on defenses too, not just offenses. How it gives value to your choices of what content to run and what content to postprone. How it makes to think and plan your progression. How it forces you to KNOW your character's strengths and weaknesses, all of which should be instrumental in any RPG.

Without it, you would reach 100 'eventually', no matter how much you die. That sounds stupid, really. You should care about what content to run. You should care about dying. I want to care about that stuff, that's why I want the penalty to stay. Without it, I wouldn't care.

People have been to hand-held by quick-saving in games these days. Go back and play the early Mario games, and tell me why the XP penalty in PoE is "unfair".

If there is no xp penalty I can fight Shaper and Elder more often cause I don't skip every map that Zana gave me and has a guardian if I am not 100% sure that I can do them deathless.

If there is no xp penalty I can do every synthesised map.

If there is no xp penalty I can complete Atlas faster cause I can beat every vaaled map that otherwise I can't do deathless and skip.

If there is no xp penalty I didn't play differnt my character at 10% - 70% and 90% of experience Like I do now.

Bottom line xp penalty and limited access to end bosses, is what make every fight feels like an accoplishment ...is like how I can kill this bastard and not when.

And for me that's the beauty of the game.

And in my opinion, if you died in a turbo, 300% critical, -10 resistanses, +90 lightning - cold, Eradicator (or put any other boss), you don't need a death recap to understand what kills you.

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696Gamer wrote:

If there is no xp penalty I can fight Shaper and Elder more often cause I don't skip every map that Zana gave me and has a guardian if I am not 100% sure that I can do them deathless.

If there is no xp penalty I can do every synthesised map.

If there is no xp penalty I can complete Atlas faster cause I can beat every vaaled map that otherwise I can't do deathless and skip.

If there is no xp penalty I didn't play differnt my character at 10% - 70% and 90% of experience Like I do now.

Bottom line xp penalty and limited access to end bosses, is what make every fight feels like an accoplishment ...is like how I can kill this bastard and not when.

And for me that's the beauty of the game.

And in my opinion, if you died in a turbo, 300% critical, -10 resistanses, +90 lightning - cold, Eradicator (or put any other boss), you don't need a death recap to understand what kills you.

I agree.

You can still do all of these maps WITH the death penalty, too. It just becomes a challenge with a consequence. It shouldn't be a gamers right to progress no matter what he does, how bad he plays or how bad his build is. You don't have to keep leveling after you reach 90-92. You don't have to keep leveling all the time.