[3.16 - RETIRING BUILD] VD Brands: S-Tier Bosser, A-Tier Map! -- MURDERED BY GGG_INTERN SOMEWHERE--

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Diacred wrote:
Hey guys!

I was looking for a fun non meta build and I am really happy I stumbled upon this one. Great guide, great build, I am having quite a bit of fun with it atm!
I am only level 78 and missing quite a few passives but it's still working pretty well.

I did a few things differently, I am not sure if any is better than what you guys have been trying, but here are the things I changed:

- As I managed to get a headhunter this league after 2 weeks of farming and really wanted to use it in this build, meaning I don't have a belt slot for life / resistances
- I am using Asenath's Gentle Touch gloves for the corpse explosions + blind + temporal chains, but that meant that I need to use Whispers Of Doom anoint to get a second curse and can't use Battle Rouse to help alleviate mana issues.
- I am using the Perfect Form on the armor slot, I just love this armor piece, the free Arctic Armor (and thus freeze immunity), decent evasion (I get about 40% chance to evade) + Phase Acrobatics feels very good in terms of survivability.
- I am using the cluster jewel Kitava's Teaching to get the notable Disciple of Kitava, we're always spawning corpses so I felt it fit quite well in this build and it gives mana and life regen every second
- Because I have a HH + Asenath I can't get enough resists if I go for a Leadership's Price, so I decided to go for the cluster jewel Secrets of Suffering. But this means I need to do enough lightning and cold damage to make it work. It's not perfect yet, but with just a abyssal jewel with T1 added lightning / added cold damage to spells, I manage to get 30% Scorch, 5% Sap and Brittle on most bosses.
- The jewel in question also has 2% of damage recouped as mana which is not as good as Battle Rouse but helps a bit.

Here is my "version"'s PoB if some are interested:

https://pastebin.com/TeeSHusY
"




I feel like there are still a lot of things to improve but I have 2 main issues at the moment:

- Mana consumption is just insane, when you get to 200%+ cast speed the mana just runs out too fast for even an enduring mana flask + clarity lvl 20 (had to replace Skitterbots with it for now). I am also using a Divergent Life On Hit on Cyclone to squeeze a bit more mana per hit, as well as the 2% damages recouped as mana jewel, but even with all that I am permanently out of mana when the build ramps up. I still do tons of damage but I feel it could be so much more without mana problems. Do you guys feel the same way or is Battle Rouse just this good?
I am considering using a Lavangia's Spirit mana flask as well as an enduring mana flask but losing a flask slot may hurt.
- The 2 brands playstyle is sometimes weird, if you don't time it properly (you cast the 2 brands too fast), sometimes the second brand won't cast (seems like PoE doesn't buffer skills) and the few times I have died are pretty much because of me only having one of the 2 brands out. Might just be that I need to slow down when playing this build but wondering how you guys manage that (I am considering putting everything on only one arcanist brand)

Anyway, thanks a lot for a great build and all your discussions those past few pages, it's been really interesting to read!

Edit: don't mind the anomalous arctic armor with prolif, I used that before setting up Secrets of Suffering and forgot to remove it :p


OH! I forgot to mention one thing: here is my version of Arctic Armour preventing freezes: An Idiot-proof CWDT loop.

https://streamable.com/aegb8x

(Yes, this is T16 crit map damage being soaked xD)

EDIT: On that note, maybe Vaal Clarity is the play. The only time you truly need the mana at full pump is when unloading on a Guardian/ElderGuardian/Conqueror, so you should have Vaal Charges. Let the brands ramp to full, then pop Vaal Clarity.. Bam, 14 seconds of unlimited mana!! (9.9 * 40% skill effect duration from Ascendancy).
💥💫BB Unloader 1000% AoE 70m DPS🗡️🔪🔫: view-thread/3466787
FlickerCoC Ice Nova / Spear Assassin: view-thread/3225536
🔨⚡CWC Lightning Conduit Mjolner Trickster: view-thread/3300148
VD Arcanist Brand Necro: view-thread/2911667
Last edited by primaeva#0673 on Aug 14, 2021, 12:59:47 PM
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IceColdPorkSoda wrote:
https://pastebin.com/L7B19phx

Here's my take on the build. Single brand set-up. EB/MoM. I need to improve my gear a lot but I like the way it feels to play more than I did when descerate and VD were on separate brands. It makes mapping way smoother when I'm not lagging incredibly hard.


Hey! GeForce Now actually launched yesterday in my country! While it actually performed worse for me because I have a relatively up-to-date rig, my friends actually got it to hold at 50FPS on a TABLET.

I'm not sure if that's a solution for you (be silly to pay a sub just to play PoE) but I'm thinking it's not a bad interim patch till you save up for a next big upgrade.

P.S. On single brands - it will do fine for mapping, but, how do I put this - you will be DPSing at 1/2 damage on bosses / single target, just by the nature of the fact that


Brand 1: Desecrate - VD1 - Desecrate - VD1 - Desecrate - VD1

Brand 2: ... Desecrate - VD2 - Desecrate - VD2 - Desecrate - VD2

Do you see - there are times where there is a max of 12 corpses on the floor, then VD 1 eats all 12. VD 2 casts, but nothing happens. The only way around this is to drop brands at a frame within 33ms (server tick rate IIRC) so VD1 sits RIGHT atop Desecrate 2.

... On top of dropping a link for a single brand setup, you're actually doing about 33% of the damage of a double-brand setup. Now, that could feel fine because the build with Leadership absolutely wrecks some other builds even at a third the power, but it's still not the maxmimum you can squeeze from the build!!
💥💫BB Unloader 1000% AoE 70m DPS🗡️🔪🔫: view-thread/3466787
FlickerCoC Ice Nova / Spear Assassin: view-thread/3225536
🔨⚡CWC Lightning Conduit Mjolner Trickster: view-thread/3300148
VD Arcanist Brand Necro: view-thread/2911667
Last edited by primaeva#0673 on Aug 14, 2021, 1:32:45 PM
Corpse walker boots generate enough corpses that I don’t think lack of corpses is really a problem. I may lose a link but I can have two damaging brands attached to an enemy instead of one. Overall the QoL is much higher.

I’ll look into the GeForce now thing. Depending on cost I may go this route.
Corpse Walker generates a corpse per tick - two Arcanist Brands ticking at 1.5++ times a second (remember, they alternate between spells, not cast all at the same time) consumes 2 x 1.5 x 12 = 36 corpses PER second.

Right now your Desecrate is only feeding it 18 corpses (12 x 1.5, then half lost to a VD that affects 0 corpses).

Even if Corpsewalker ticked 3 times a second, dropping 3 corpses, your Arcanist Brands can VD up to 36 corpses per second, but you're only supplying 18 + whatever Corpsewalker adds (probably 3-4 / sec?)

It's going to feel fine for mapping since monsters dying supplies corpses, but it'll really struggle on bosses, because the ramp speed is cut in nearly half and the earliest stacks fall off (use the calculator to see breakpoints, far right off the spreadsheet.) It's just the way Arcanist Brands work.
💥💫BB Unloader 1000% AoE 70m DPS🗡️🔪🔫: view-thread/3466787
FlickerCoC Ice Nova / Spear Assassin: view-thread/3225536
🔨⚡CWC Lightning Conduit Mjolner Trickster: view-thread/3300148
VD Arcanist Brand Necro: view-thread/2911667
Last edited by primaeva#0673 on Aug 14, 2021, 3:16:38 PM
What you say makes good sense. You’re the expert on the build, maybe I will go back to the two brand setup. Maybe I’ll make a AHK macro that casts the two brands perfectly every time :)

I do like the EB/MoM with ES leech. Since we’re using huge amounts of ES we are always leeching, so it’s 100% uptime on the 39% more damage multiplier.
Also, I still need to test out how DD does in place of VD for bossing. I have a baran A4 that’s almost ready to spawn. DD won’t consume too many corpses despite my hat enchant, so two brands should be a true doubling of damage unlike the VD setup that is going to consume too many corpses.
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primaeva wrote:

Ha-HA! Someone with a HH for the build! I imagine if you managed to Soul Eater into a Minotaur you could get an instant pop eventually!

I hope you're not too discouraged by the slow speed currently because trust me, once you get the hang of it, it absolutely plows open map layouts because it turns from casting BEFORE packs to casting IN BETWEEN them - then you are basically racing against your own balls to hit the next packs.

[...]

Yes, I am overdue for a video on "Tips and Tricks" on playing the 2-button playstyle, my bad. There's a ton of tricks to "reset" an error - for example - if you fuck up 2 brands, just recast 1-2 again then Recall on top of the target. The newest brands attach to the target, and the 2 "wrong" ones will be prioritised later. This is most obvious when, during learning, you fuck up on the boss. So just recast correctly, then "Pull" the wrong brands off the boss with Recall.

First of all, thanks for your very thorough answer, it's great!

Don't worry I haven't been discouraged but I definitely struggle with getting the hang of it properly, usually I'll cast my brands on the first pack I find, then run to another pack and brand recall there, after that often recasting before reaching the next pack and then recalling the brands there. Often recalling brands that I didn't notice expired :p It's kind of messy and would love to have a video with tips and the ability to see it in action this league (since the video in your opening post is kind of old now).
The build is still massive amounts of fun tho.

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primaeva wrote:

B) Remove Arcane Surge on Desecrate - I toyed with this idea but realised it's counterintuitive - the slight increase to mana regen doesn't pay for the amount of mana drained from a 300% cast speed Desecrate brand ticking.

That's interesting, but isn't Arcane Surge also about +20% MORE damage? It seems kind of shame to lose that much damage.

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primaeva wrote:

Finally, grab an Unnatural Instinct immediately, it gives you INSANE offense and returns 2 passive points to you! It gives: 58% increased damage (with Spritual Aid), 10% maximum mana (yum), and 30% increased corpse health which is insane - so now your corpses have 180% life instead of 100% from a normal Desecrate. Big booms!

Yeah I've been meaning to but I've sank all my money into this build as well as another and I literally have 100 chaos left right now and I just leveling this build right now so not making much currency. But that'll be my next big purchase for sure!

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primaeva wrote:

I'm glad there are players still actively seeking off-meta! It really goes against the narrative that off-meta builds can't do endgame. Most people just mean "what streamers build" and that's it.

Yeah I just love off meta build, always on the look-out for those kind of things, they are just much more fun to theorycraft and improve on I feel.

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primaeva wrote:

OH! I forgot to mention one thing: here is my version of Arctic Armour preventing freezes: An Idiot-proof CWDT loop.

https://streamable.com/aegb8x

(Yes, this is T16 crit map damage being soaked xD)

EDIT: On that note, maybe Vaal Clarity is the play. The only time you truly need the mana at full pump is when unloading on a Guardian/ElderGuardian/Conqueror, so you should have Vaal Charges. Let the brands ramp to full, then pop Vaal Clarity.. Bam, 14 seconds of unlimited mana!! (9.9 * 40% skill effect duration from Ascendancy).

Not sure I understood your CWDT loop for preventing freeze? The video isn't really clear about it apart from the fact that you are indeed not getting frozen :p
And gosh thanks for the Vaal Clarity idea, I always forget about it, that's an amazing idea and will help tremendously.

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primaeva wrote:

There is one thing I cannot understate - buy a cast speed Cane of Kulemak, and watch the playability go through the roof. I was shocked at how different the build felt.

That's interesting, I might need to try this, right now I just went for the least expensive option and I'll probably try it when I'll get more currency, but right now I am theorycrafting another version using a Rune Dagger + Shield.
I don't like the fact that with a staff, Glancing Blow and max block is pretty much wasted, it tends to only be worth it if you have %life recovered on block.
So what I want to try is to get a Rune Dagger with crit chance/multi + 1 lvl of fire spell as well as a ES Shield with 1 lvl of fire spell + %life gained on block + %mana gained on block.
The Rune Dagger would allow me to still be able to cyclone and get fortify.
I feel that this combination would make the build pretty much immortal as well as totally eradicate all the mana problems. On top of that you'd get +2 to Volatile Dead level which would compensate the loss of damage.

Here is the PoB I've been playing around with: https://pastebin.com/JdX1n85Z

I've been also wondering if Unearth instead of Life Gained On Hit on the cyclone setup wouldn't be a good idea. It generates lvl 81 corpses that can be consumed by your VD brand, bone offering as well as Disciple Of Kitava. It also hits which means it'd give health back with the life gained on spell hit on the rings.

Would love to know what you think of it.

Cheers
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IceColdPorkSoda wrote:
Also, I still need to test out how DD does in place of VD for bossing. I have a baran A4 that’s almost ready to spawn. DD won’t consume too many corpses despite my hat enchant, so two brands should be a true doubling of damage unlike the VD setup that is going to consume too many corpses.

I've been also wondering that! I've been running a few T16 with a lvl 18 DD instead of my lvl 21 VD and the damage felt way better even though the clear was clearly way worse. It might be an excellent idea to switch for bosses. Could also use Vaal Detonate Dead if the fight gives you enough souls!
Cane of kulemak might be one of the top two or three unique weapons in the game right now.
If you know what mods it can roll it can do truly amazing things for your build.
Fascinating build, I am trying it out right now but having some problems.
https://pastebin.com/MLDZXjzm


I sometimes feel the damage just fall down to 0. I think it may be me doing some sequence wrong, since I'm not used to this play style, but even map bosses feel slow (although I am getting better at clearing). Last t16 I did I had to dance around the boss and the league content just wouldn't die (I checked few times and there was no fire immunity) although millions of balls were spawning amongst them. The survi is great, I rarely die and often see that any source of dmg is immediately replenished.


I also have mana problems, hence I didn't change the annoint and still lose 2 points in Unnatural instinct. Did you solve it in the new 12ex PoB? I can't really see any source of mana regen there. Would the watcher clarity mod that recovers 10% mana solve it completely? That would be either pricey or would cost the ES on hit, but technically I still get it from Spider+boots.

Another question: what spectres are you using this league? Primal CrushClaws or the delve ones, or something new?
Last edited by Potatontas#2511 on Aug 14, 2021, 5:01:40 PM

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