Development Manifesto: Delirium Improvements
" its not a problem for, everytime reached 5-6 stacks of rewards , loot is really bad , sometimes drop 2 chisel on a 5 stacks (im serious), back entire map to grab items is really slow and if you stop to pick up the items while delirium is active u can take one-shot. |
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First, I love the game in general. Thanks so much. Now, my feedback.
"I chucked decent amount of time into Metamorph league and honestly, it felt good because it didn't have a dumb forced timer, I could clear the map at my own pace and then take on the 'league' mechanic. I also played decent amount of Legion and before that Synthesis, what those leagues had in common? Timers, single most demotivating mechanic, those timers force you to play builds that can cope with quick and massive zoom power." I second Khannon on this. My favorite part of this game, and why I pay money when I don't have to (in order to support it), is the customization and player choice. I am not forced to play one of only three viable builds per class (like D3), and I can play at my own pace and how I like. I know many players focus on clear time and going directly from point A to B, but I am one of those neurotic players that feels compelled to fully explore every map, and make sure I fully clear them. That is why, although I like much of the additions like socketed jewels, I am not a fan of the Delirium mechanic so far. To be fair, that might be related to my experience, in that in playing the Delirium, I died easily the first time due to some bullsh*t on-death slam, then on the second one I got kicked/disconnected, and when I tried to sign back in, there was a queue in the hundreds. And the idea that I lost all the loot because I got disconnected before I could pick it up was frustrating. But even if it had run smoothly, and the unavoidable on-death mechanics hadn't wiped me the first time, I agree with Khannon that I don't like being forced to play a certain build to be viable, and don't like being forced to play a certain way. I too think Metamorph might have been my favorite league so far (although admittedly it is only my fourth league), because I was able to move at my own pace, and especially because it gave me more options/chances to customize (boss/loot), not less options. Let me say that again, because I feel it might bear repeating, because it sometimes doesn't seem like you realize that this one factor might be the biggest selling point of the game: GIVE PLAYERS MORE OPTIONS, NOT FEWER. Having mechanics that force you into doing the same thing as everyone else in order to remain viable is why I got bored with D3, and was one of a handful of reasons why I stopped playing. I really liked that PoE not only had more classes and a huge web of skills (again, more options), but also that each build could have numerous variations and still be viable. Every Witch didn't have to become a Necromancer (my favorite class), every Necromancer didn't have to summon zombies (although mine did almost exclusively; aside from zombies and golems, I summoned no other types of minions), every zombie NM didn't have to have a specific item to be viable (one of mine was a typical Baron, but my other didn't mess with the strength-focused build), etc. Even if two people played a zombie-only Baron NM, there was still room for a lot of variation, based on passive and item choices. Again, I think Metamorph was such a success (and perhaps this one is less so), because it gave me more options- I got to essentially customize a boss for every map, as well as the loot that dropped. Sometimes I focused on getting the best loot available, but sometimes I would have to drop down a bit on a few boss parts because it was too much for me while leveling; I had the choice, though- if I wanted to risk it with a super strong boss, or one that had some mechanic for which my build had little defense, I could take that risk for the increased loot. Some of the other people with complaints about this league (besides being very rude and aggressive) seem to want the game to be made easier, but I assure you that is not what I am saying. I like how hard it is at times, and I don't mind dying (although I agree on-death kill-shots seem cheap; I beat your pack, but somehow you kill me afterwards?), but the one thing that I do mind is when what I love about the game seems to be diminishing, not expanding- in this case, player options. Again, this seems like a mixed bag, because although the Delirium mechanic seems to be forcing me to play certain builds and/or in certain ways to remain viable (which seems to be removing my choices/options) I also got more options in the form of stuff like the socketed jewels. So overall, this doesn't enrage me like it seems to others, and it won't stop me from playing the game, but I don't really like the mechanic, and I would be happy if it didn't make it into the standard game (although not as happy as I was that Metamorph did make it- YEAH!). I might even go back to standard early, which I have never done in previous leagues- I won't quit the game, but I may just quit the league. It seems to be forcing players into either tanky builds or super speed ones, and I tend to like builds with a fair amount of utility. I also want to be able to play at my own pace and the way that I want, without it causing me to be penalized (in terms of loot, for instance) or die more often. And again, I realize that my opinion of the league itself might be colored by the technical issues that GGG is experiencing, in that it is frustrating to be kicking a**, only to be kicked/disconnected, and lose all the loot I had earned and planned to pick up, as well as then being forced to get to the back of a long line just to reconnect. Perhaps once those issues are fixed I will like it more, but I kind of doubt it, because it seems like my dislike stems more from the mechanic itself, rather than technical issues. That said, this is what leagues seem to be for- experimentation on GGG's part. If I really don't like it, I can let them know (like I am doing here, hopefully politely and without hostility), and just revert back to Standard, which is still awesome. In a couple of months, they will try something else, and I may love that more than anything else to date (and hopefully Delirium won't be added to Standard, so it will just be the memory of a failed experiment). Every success usually arises from a number of failures, so perhaps this is just a stepping stone to an even bigger success. And although I hope that the Delirium mechanic doesn't make it to standard, I do hope that socketed jewels remain, because again I like that it adds more variation to builds, and yet another way to customize. Thanks again, and I hope the feedback helps. Last edited by Whatevsbro on Mar 18, 2020, 12:21:02 AM
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" LOL Adding this to my signature, thanks "Path of Exile's engine is currently modern, lean and fast." - Chris Wilson, September 19th, 2019 "It looks like we broke something with 3.10.0. We don't know what it is yet." - Bex, March 16th, 2020 Last edited by girng on Mar 18, 2020, 3:03:15 AM
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Hope you will make ground effects more visible in the fog. For example patches of shocking ground are invisible in the fog.
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Just wanted to tell you that I love your game and also the league!!!
I find it rewarding just to play it because all of the drops from the monsters. Incursion was rewarding and you guys realized it because all the loot drop at the end now that the loot drops normally you don't see it anymore? Breach was a very popular league and it didn't have a loot explosion at the end, just some bonus stuff from monsters. Why is this community so whiny? | |
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Would it be possible to have some kind of container "chest" that would spawn when the Delirium timer expires? It would solve the backtracking issue for collecting the loot you missed, at least. If tracking dropped loot for the chest is possible within the game?
It doesn't have to be an actual chest or strongbox, just some kind of object which bwould drop the loot for you when you interact with it. There could even be several of these containers if dropping all the loot at once is a problem. The game basically does this already with the Delirium reward tracker. You'd only have to make it track loot from other mobs within the area too. |
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Just stupid. these points are contradictory.
"Delirium Item Drop Vacuuming We totally understand the feedback that Delirium makes you want to go fast and not pick up items, requiring you to then backtrack to grab anything decent that dropped. There have been requests to accumulate all items that would drop and instead drop them at the end of the encounter. This is not how we want the game to be played. We have only done it in the past when it would have been impossible to access the items afterwards (if they're in an Incursion area, or in the darkness during a Delve). While it's tempting to take every opportunity to vacuum up all the items that drop and present them to you in one go, that is not how the core game loop of Action RPGs should function. In addition, even if we wanted to, it's not really even practical to vacuum an entire map worth of items and drop them in one place. During our internal testing before release, we increased the length of time that Delirium encounters last so that players have extra time to pick up items as they go. Item filters help alert you to which items are important to grab, and we did intentionally compensate with extra time for you to do so." "Monster On-Death Effects Currently, there's a random chance for individual Delirium monsters to have mods that cause On-Death effects. We are internally experimenting with moving these to be pack-based (so that there's more variance in when you encounter them), rebalancing them around this, and improving how they are signalled." if you want people to deal with an abundance of on death effects they cant pick up loot manually and deal with a timed event like the fog. waiting for all the mobs you just killed to finish exploding/leaving death puddles etc to pick up loot will just kill you. not to mention you cant even see most of it because you decided greyscale was all you needed for this league. also i disagree that mobs need to be challenging. they're mobs, they exist to get blown away. challenging content is why bosses exist. on death effects are just lazy. Last edited by Globenstine on Mar 18, 2020, 5:49:35 AM
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I honestly agree with many others about deleting the timer. You've said on-death effects are an effective way to kill players. Also, you add growing difficulty. To me, it feels like mobs are become 5-8 times harder to kill at 5-6 fog level, while it's about 2-3 times easy TO BE killed yourself. So, if the content becomes harder itself, why then the players should also suffer timer's dick tickling their asses while they already trying to not to get one-shott?
Example 1: Alva's Temple
Spoiler
We have a timer only when we should clear one pretty small location, where mobs are preventively visible and already set to their places. And you also can see (and even predict before the encounter, based on Architects in the room) what types of danger you'll face. This timer is not felt that punishing because you have enough time to start killing and kills rewards you with more time, so the only way you can fail this short encounter - is to be too greedy, or to get shotted by the GMP-chaos-gooses, lol.
But after Temple is located, we know what to expect, cuz we choose the dangers in temple ourselves. We know, what types of rewards should we expect. And the most important, we have as much time, as we want, to explore it, and the only limitation is typical 6 mapping portals. Also, it's pretty logically explained, when Alva opens time incursion with the help of bloody ritual, and the portal is unstable, as it is an intervention in the history and time itself. And after this, we have stable portals to the real Temple in the present time.
Spoiler
No timer! You just do what you do usually, and in the end you have an opportunity to face one more dangerous boss, kill and loot it. No timer, just a very fat and very dangerous enemy. You even may spam it with 500k DPS ED for eternity, if you want, and in the end you still will get a full reward pack. The only punishing timer here is your lifetime timer. You also build the danger-reward scale yourself, you can see what damage types and attack moves to expect, and if you see really deadly mods for your build, you can skip it. Anyway, you will be ready to face what you build yourself, and you will have all your time to deal with it.
Spoiler
You know literally NOTHING about dangers you'll face, nor rewards you will get for it before you'll start the encounter. The danger rises, as it feels for now, exponentially, while rewards - linearly. The types of dangers are unknown and unpredictable until you face it. Moreover, they are random and dynamic, which means you can face any types out of the full list in a single encounter.
As the content gets harder, you should react faster and faster. You will never have time to look at the mob's affixes. Ones I've been running lvl 5 Delirium in Crystal Veins (Act 4, I should mention, not even endgame, not even half a story mode), and there was rare not-delirium-spawned mob with Haste aura. I could not run away under Smoke mine + Withering Step + QSS flask with +20% MS. Nor I could kill this fat butt until the fog ended. And at last, like the cherry on the cake, the FUCKING TIMER! When you finally receive a valuable encounter (e.g. Currency, Fragment, Proph, DC's, Maps...) you will run forward like fking Forest Dumb to try to have a maximum out of this. You can't stop becuz of the timer, but also you should "tread carefully through the mists of Delirium" (KEKW). How the hell should we "tread carefully" (which could really soften the danger scaling), if you will get one-shotted unless you are unstoppably running around like a cockroach.
Spoiler
If you want the timer to stay in mechanics, no matter the cause, you obviously should nerf HP/defense scaling for delirium spawns and usual delirium-affected mobs. Especially inadequate scaling after 4-5-th lvl, after which enemies becomes near-immortal.
Either you should delete the timer, and let players to explore location as long as they want, and to die because of danger scaling, not because panicking between time-hammer and danger-anvil. Additionally, I would like to mention delirium debuffs, which feels to makes out of you an almost harmless pillow-to-kick sometimes. Like Paralising touch, for example, making you near-immobile at all. The nerf for debuff's longevity is nice and all, but why the fuck this thing is more effective than Temporal Chains and can not be dispelled? Are you okay there? Try to farm at least T4 map during lvl 5 Delirium yourself. And better pick a labyrinth-type map, to feel all the preasures of high-lvl Delirium in closed spaces. But I don't want to be completely ungrateful. I very like the idea and style of the League. As well as coloring decision. Like a bad dream with monsters you can't run away from, or an old colorless horror movie... Yet, slightly higher colors saturation should be nice, as the lots of ground effects are almost invisible. Fire and burning ground are done perfectly, with that fog pushed away out of the center of effects. But, for example, caustic ground is invisible completely. Even if it's my own caustic ground from the Caustic Arrow, and I would like to kite mobs around a while, but I don't understand if they are on the damaging area or not. And those small delirium pustula-like bombs. Very tricky and vilely... Last edited by GtRandom on Mar 18, 2020, 7:36:28 AM
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Please revert the nerf to the Shaper's Touch, game was hard to play before this league now it's impossible.
You increased the monster damage and time to kill and you drastically reduce our ability to survive. This leaves only one type of game play “speed run one shot machine” so zero fun. |
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Please make Delirium phases drop NO loot at all (at least while leveling) so that there is NO incentive at all left to run them!
(From three useless items to zero shouldn't be that hard to do) |
