Well, I liked the build itself, but had trouble getting the items, and increasing int.
Since that was my 1st build, that I tried to follow from forums. I think I made it far tbh.
Only challenge for me were t15+ maps and conqueror's.
Aswell had to make some own choices on the build, because some items were existing in deliruim league.
this league it was incredibly easy to get the items for me, as you could make many of them yourself and after i realised how powerful the garden was it was my best gear (only the overpowered split jewel league was better) in playing this build.
At the other side if you played it the first time you would be a little loosed as kelvin (the build maker) dont play and dont refresh the build guide and you had to follow the tree who many experienced people could help you.
I i played it the first time i would also be a bit lost.
but kelvin back and IF the build can do the contend he and the other smart guys in forum will get it work.
This is how my Ice/Fire 2k INT performed with crap items using Less duration to simulate the future.
But remember, the hits will be more consistent due to decrease area of effect and increased shard area hit... and the First fire hit will do 150% more dmg
Hmmm thats an interesting demonstration. The less duration actually reduces your icestorm duration to 1.75s which is almost the same as the new limit will be with a lvl 5 awakened cwc. Watched the video and yeah that kind of sucks! Your storms disappear so fast that you have backtrack a lot if you don't kill and the boss dps is so limited!
About EE... It will actually be a lot less impacts that alternate. Maybe somewhere between half to 3/4 of the impacts. The impacts don't always overlap and hit a monster. So when two or more element types hit after one another you will be doing less damage. EE doesn't work well with frequent impacts.
I'd do the same test again but swapping firestorm for another dmg gem.
I made the same conclusions so far about the nerfing. I.e. what are they really thinking with 5 storm limit. I put in Awakened Added Cold Damage in PoB and manually calculated it with 60% effectiveness, its better but not really surpassing Aw Cold Penetration.
A big problem of WI has been the performance issues. So instead of fixing it by making the code better, they are just trying to skip the problem by limiting the number of storms to get better performance. This means that ether the problem is so deep in the base code they cannot fix it, they don't know how to fix it, or all hands are already on PoE2 and they don't want to fix it.
Yeah I agree with that but I also think this might be a strategic move by GGG to move away from autocasting and towards more selfcasting to try to make the changes progressively so that players won't rage as much? :-)
"
ichbinwerichbi wrote:
"
Kelvynn wrote:
In the meantime, can somebody summarize the recommended changes from the 3.11 league? For example, I see that people are using Wave of Conviction instead of Ball Lightning because of the new Unnerve synergy. What else is new, good and affordable?
As i said lingen tested a crit version with totaly different tree. He got unbelivible dmg and with the cluster jewels and extremly hatred effectiviness also really high es.
but they nerfed hatred watchers eye and dmg so survability will be a problem in new league.
Otherwise there where no really big changes for the build, only getting mirror worthy gear was nearly for all possible with investment in gardening. you could make tailwind boots really easy exploding corps chest with attr and high es was not so complicated, good rings with the resists you need was really easy.
But for the gem setup there was no big change. Affording jewels was more difficult but crafting them much easyer.
I wouldn't say there are any big changes. Most of the stuff in 3.11 will stay with 3.11 (explody chests/synthesised items/mirror tier double-influenced stuff/6x T1 perfect rolls). I swapped BL with Wave of Conviction right after the league ended because I realized with Hatred it will apply cold exposure without any other changes and its AoE is not bad at all. Thus I could replace Frost Bomb with another gem (would be heresy in any other case). So WoC only works if you have enough phys->cold conversion OR added cold damage to apply cold exposure with it. Blade Blast could be used to apply Unnerved in a cwdt setup. I didn't try it because I already had Unnerve on hit on gloves. Edit: Oh and I also selfcast Immortal Call linked with Arcane Surge, drop Vortex & link Bonechill with Skitterbots (if I use them) or Vaal Cold Snap. This is more of a prefence but I save another gem slot with it.
My experimental build was based on stacking aura effect cluster jewels, running 4-7 auras & getting enough reduced mana reservation. (Hatred/Zealotry/Discipline/Clarity/Precision/Purity of Lightning/Skitterbots)
The crit worked out well because of Zealotry/Inquisitor ascendancy/Bottled Faith + a huge amount of aura effect - and scaled ridicolously high with a Diamond Flask, Crit crafted Cinderswallow flask & putting in Precision (that also got buffed by aura effect). It was ridicolously expensive in 3.11 so not really something I would recommend next league especially since we need to find out whether CwC still works first.
"
ichbinwerichbi wrote:
...but they nerfed hatred watchers eye and dmg
Nah they nerfed:
- "Vengeful Commander" on cluster jewels by 10% (20% from 30%)
- Discipline ES Recovery % Watcher's Eye
- Discipline ES On hit Watcher's Eye
- Clarity Mana as ES Watcher's Eye
There nerfs are kinda fine. They were used for a lot of builds. They can still be used. The big nerfhammer for us is on storm cap.
TL:DR: It almost feels like GGG used 3.11 Harvest league as a reference for what builds were "too strong" in their opinion and nerfed WI because of that. Sure we very often top the leaderboards with amount of total ES, but WI is not as strong as some other builds out there that AFAIK still are just as strong. Our ES has to be that high because we don't really have good damage mitigation. I invested more currency on the build in 3.11 than I ever have, and combined with how easy it was to get BIS gear, it just feels like an unjustified nerf or lack of understanding of the WI metagame on their part. Because in for example Metamorph or Blight league it would be hard to get to these top end amounts of damage & HP. The clear speed is not that great either, it was only after getting an explody chest that this was ridicolously good. Now it feels like the the casual players and the road to the metagame will be slightly harder.
Last edited by LiNGeN#0966 on Sep 17, 2020, 6:27:18 AM
Actually Frost Shield really fit this build and add another layer of defense. There is also Elemental Penetration gem which add another -32% res to all elements.
I made the same conclusions so far about the nerfing. I.e. what are they really thinking with 5 storm limit. I put in Awakened Added Cold Damage in PoB and manually calculated it with 60% effectiveness, its better but not really surpassing Aw Cold Penetration.
A big problem of WI has been the performance issues. So instead of fixing it by making the code better, they are just trying to skip the problem by limiting the number of storms to get better performance. This means that ether the problem is so deep in the base code they cannot fix it, they don't know how to fix it, or all hands are already on PoE2 and they don't want to fix it.
Yeah I agree with that but I also think this might be a strategic move by GGG to move away from autocasting and towards more selfcasting to try to make the changes progressively so that players won't rage as much? :-)
"
ichbinwerichbi wrote:
"
Kelvynn wrote:
In the meantime, can somebody summarize the recommended changes from the 3.11 league? For example, I see that people are using Wave of Conviction instead of Ball Lightning because of the new Unnerve synergy. What else is new, good and affordable?
As i said lingen tested a crit version with totaly different tree. He got unbelivible dmg and with the cluster jewels and extremly hatred effectiviness also really high es.
but they nerfed hatred watchers eye and dmg so survability will be a problem in new league.
Otherwise there where no really big changes for the build, only getting mirror worthy gear was nearly for all possible with investment in gardening. you could make tailwind boots really easy exploding corps chest with attr and high es was not so complicated, good rings with the resists you need was really easy.
But for the gem setup there was no big change. Affording jewels was more difficult but crafting them much easyer.
I wouldn't say there are any big changes. Most of the stuff in 3.11 will stay with 3.11 (explody chests/synthesised items/mirror tier double-influenced stuff/6x T1 perfect rolls). I swapped BL with Wave of Conviction right after the league ended because I realized with Hatred it will apply cold exposure without any other changes and its AoE is not bad at all. Thus I could replace Frost Bomb with another gem (would be heresy in any other case). So WoC only works if you have enough phys->cold conversion OR added cold damage to apply cold exposure with it. Blade Blast could be used to apply Unnerved in a cwdt setup. I didn't try it because I already had Unnerve on hit on gloves. Edit: Oh and I also selfcast Immortal Call linked with Arcane Surge, drop Vortex & link Bonechill with Skitterbots (if I use them) or Vaal Cold Snap. This is more of a prefence but I save another gem slot with it.
My experimental build was based on stacking aura effect cluster jewels, running 4-7 auras & getting enough reduced mana reservation. (Hatred/Zealotry/Discipline/Clarity/Precision/Purity of Lightning/Skitterbots)
The crit worked out well because of Zealotry/Inquisitor ascendancy/Bottled Faith + a huge amount of aura effect - and scaled ridicolously high with a Diamond Flask, Crit crafted Cinderswallow flask & putting in Precision (that also got buffed by aura effect). It was ridicolously expensive in 3.11 so not really something I would recommend next league especially since we need to find out whether CwC still works first.
"
ichbinwerichbi wrote:
...but they nerfed hatred watchers eye and dmg
Nah they nerfed:
- "Vengeful Commander" on cluster jewels by 10% (20% from 30%)
- Discipline ES Recovery % Watcher's Eye
- Discipline ES On hit Watcher's Eye
- Clarity Mana as ES Watcher's Eye
There nerfs are kinda fine. They were used for a lot of builds. They can still be used. The big nerfhammer for us is on storm cap.
TL:DR: It almost feels like GGG used 3.11 Harvest league as a reference for what builds were "too strong" in their opinion and nerfed WI because of that. Sure we very often top the leaderboards with amount of total ES, but WI is not as strong as some other builds out there that AFAIK still are just as strong. Our ES has to be that high because we don't really have good damage mitigation. I invested more currency on the build in 3.11 than I ever have, and combined with how easy it was to get BIS gear, it just feels like an unjustified nerf or lack of understanding of the WI metagame on their part. Because in for example Metamorph or Blight league it would be hard to get to these top end amounts of damage & HP. The clear speed is not that great either, it was only after getting an explody chest that this was ridicolously good. Now it feels like the the casual players and the road to the metagame will be slightly harder.
Ok they dont nerf hatret but vengful commander wich is based on hatred :-)
And sure there will be the exploding chests and synthesised items. BUT the will be extremly higher in costs, as the leagues bevor.
Only to get an inc attr inc int amulet will be nearly impossible for not 24/players and exploding chest will see how many people get them with both attr. and high es.
I dont say that its impossible to play this build. With lilianmarius or your gear you can still play with comfort. But as an normal player it will be much harder, if there is not a posiblity to get it work better as it looks now.
I invite everyone to go read this forum thread about WI. It has started recently and there's quite a few interesting posts about recent changes. There's a guy saying that the build will probably be one of the best boss killer builds for Heist league. Here's the link:
Weeelll this sure f***** things up. First they add and remove the same mount of damage 50% more / 50% less. GG!
You probably already noticed, but it's not the same ammount of damage. 50% more is only half of your damage more. 50% less is twice as less.
Both of them together is 75% of original damage, aka 25% less damage.
