[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything
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Phabio wrote:
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DapperDannman wrote:
I don't think you factored in the percentage of hits that would actually hit. the new one is 2.5-3 times more likely to actually hit the target. However, even best case scenario we have a ~50-100% increase in damage per icestorm but a 75% loss in the number of icestorms for a 50% loss in sustained dps.
So I'm a bit disappointed as I was planning to play with this skill in heist. I will still do it if spell repeats don't count towards the limit, but I don't think I'll be that lucky.
My back up plan? Pillar of the caged god and sweep.
Yeah, on my reference build, I go from 22 storms and 220 icicles/ second with Ele Focus or 110 storms and 1100 icicles/ second with Woke Cascade down to 5 or 5 with 25 icicles a second. Even with 50% more base and (optimistically) 100% more chance to hit in single target, I'm losing more than 60% of my single target and more than 90% of my clear.
Ramp is marginally better, from about 1Mdps/second of channeling to about 1.28Mdps/second of channeling, but my ability to actually clear maps and pick up stragglers is gone without Cascade and lingering storms. Even Inc AoE and Herald of Ice won't come close to getting that back.
We can't even use traps or mines to attempt to claw back some of the clear now.
I desperately hope I'm missing something, as I've been in love with this build since Essence, but I don't see how it can survive this without returning to a pure bossing build that struggles to clear anything.
I don't understand how you can have that many storms active when mapping? I walk straight through the map with stampede boots and everything in my path dies. When is there chance to stack 22 storms other than bosses? 5 storms with bigger explosions will be better map clear will it not? Stack some flat damage and pew pew.
As for bosses were you really stacking 110 storms at once? :/
Uh, limit of 5 storms is brutal. I've played WI at its relase, when self-cast was the only way to use it - so there was only few storms active simultaneously. It felt EXTREMELY clunky, no matter how big was the dps. And we are back here. Wish I was wrong, but it looks like "rework" is a big, undeserved nerf. Yes, build is strong and occupies top ladder when it comes to ES amount - but it requires massive investment. And there's plenty equally strong builds that cost less than Emperor's Mastery alone.
Anyway, glad I had an awesome league with this build, was fun when it lasted. And looks like it was last chance to dig it from ancient remove-only tab :D
Uh, limit of 5 storms is brutal. I've played WI at its relase, when self-cast was the only way to use it - so there was only few storms active simultaneously. It felt EXTREMELY clunky, no matter how big was the dps. And we are back here. Wish I was wrong, but it looks like "rework" is a big, undeserved nerf. Yes, build is strong and occupies top ladder when it comes to ES amount - but it requires massive investment. And there's plenty equally strong builds that cost less than Emperor's Mastery alone.
Anyway, glad I had an awesome league with this build, was fun when it lasted. And looks like it was last chance to dig it from ancient remove-only tab :D
Goodbye Whispering Ice, you will be missed.
How will it be clunky?
We are not self casting and will always have 5 storms up?
maybe boss fights will be ok, since the area will be smaller and will hit boss more often. But clear speed will be terrible, for sure, simulacrum and delirium on maps will be terrible...
This build wasn't op.. the DPS was very low if not using mirror tier items... They really killed our fun :(
I don't understand how you can have that many storms active when mapping? I walk straight through the map with stampede boots and everything in my path dies. When is there chance to stack 22 storms other than bosses? 5 storms with bigger explosions will be better map clear will it not? Stack some flat damage and pew pew.
As for bosses were you really stacking 110 storms at once? :/
He wasn't talking about mapping, nobody stacking storms at the mapping. It was about bossing, and yes you stack millions of storms at once.
The problem with mapping that if you are using awakened spell cascade, then one cast immediately cap the ammount of atorms, and the next cast will immediately remove previous ones. And icestorm aren't the kind of skill that kill enemies immediately, so you can't afford that.
We are not self casting and will always have 5 storms up?
Clunkiness is from having only 5 storms up with 2 times less frequent impacts. Is there any point of playing CwC when your older storms reset after 1,5s of channeling and storm limit is easily achievable with self cast? Maybe CwC for clear only and 2x dmg supports for single target instead.
I don't understand how you can have that many storms active when mapping? I walk straight through the map with stampede boots and everything in my path dies. When is there chance to stack 22 storms other than bosses? 5 storms with bigger explosions will be better map clear will it not? Stack some flat damage and pew pew.
As for bosses were you really stacking 110 storms at once? :/
As for stacking storms, it comes down to non-stop cycloning with Spell Cascade/ Woke Cascade. My guardian reaches 110 storms with Woke and regular CWC after 7.8 seconds. That provides an incredible amount of unseen clear when you can cut through a map and mobs that funnel in behind you die.
The issue is less than we're losing "some" storms, and more that the current delivery method of CWC Cyclone will literally overwrite the storms that aren't immediately under us. Every five triggers (about 1.7 seconds) your storms will fall off the back of the stack, leaving little to no cleanup for stragglers.
As for bossing? Honestly, yeah. I boss with Cascade quite frequently, since it helps deal with mobile bosses and keep leech rate up (I don't have the luxury of ES/Hit in SSF).
With all that said, since we're stuck returning to the bad ol' days, I suspect many people will attempt to fill in the gaps in clear with a return to WOrb and Herald of Ice for cleanup.
I've been PoB/Mathing out a Selfcast Arcmage Heirophant in the assumption that AoE scaling will be the winner for clear. Looks like I can get single target to be about 3-4x what it is currently and a "serviceable" AoE for clear with a gem/staff swap. The additional access to Elemental Penetration Support is going to make that even more lucrative. Same with the changes to Intensity.
If anything, the bossing potential for the skill has gone through the roof, but it's still gonna feel bad to run around and cast like a pleb again, though. :/ We had a good ride with the buttery smooth clear. Shame it had to die like this.
it feels like undeserved nerf, calculate as much as you want, but boss damage came from stacking ice strom, with 5 limit, there is no means it will be comparable, imo build is not dead, but certaiunly unplayable
Well I think the white, yellow and earlier red maps will be easier, with lower investment u get better results, but close to end game with mega investment the build will be far away what it was.
Btw. with limit of icestorms performance will be just better as it was, the real problems was stacking up a lot of ice storms, so maybe they didnt fix anything. They fix it with patch notes.
