[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

I think HoP got hit pretty hard, its prob on par or slightly below par with HoAg now. The pure Agony nerf really sucks as now you can only get +1 sentinals on enchants.

Ive never played HoAg before so Im less comfortable with it then HoP as that was super solid last league.

How much of a nerf do you think the HoP gem actually got damage wise? Whats the general vibe from all of you? Back to HoAg or sticking with HoP?

"

MajorSadist wrote:

I think HoP got hit pretty hard, its prob on par or slightly below par with HoAg now. The pure Agony nerf really sucks as now you can only get +1 sentinals on enchants.

Ive never played HoAg before so Im less comfortable with it then HoP as that was super solid last league.

How much of a nerf do you think the HoP gem actually got damage wise? Whats the general vibe from all of you? Back to HoAg or sticking with HoP?

I discussed it in a previous message, as well as in the 3.11 notes at the top of the guide. Feel free to check it out :) As for the feeling of HoA, I made an occultist HoA and then played this build for 3 leagues with HoA, and it works wonders. If you want to try it, I'm sure you'll like it :)

Do you intend to actually update the build guide or are you only gonna make the note on the pastebin?

"

Vatinas wrote:

The second difference is the balance between ES and armour. Indeed, you can reach higher values of raw ES by going CI. However, when I tried to build a CI version, I didn't get nearly as much armour (if I recall, I reached around 35k). What is important to keep in mind is that since our build's sustain is mainly based on ES gained based on our armour, while increasing our ES increases our effective life pool, increasing our armour increases our sustain, which is, in my opinion, a better way to increase survivability (as long as you don't get one shot, which never happens with this build). So I completely understand that it's tempting to reach an ES value as high as possible, but keep in mind that it's not the only factor that comes into play when it comes to survivability.

I went CI mainly because being so very immortal pretty much all of the time made me overly complacent ... until there was some chaos dot thing I could stand in without paying proper attention and die oh so very fast.

I had to go the extra mile to get my armour back to 60K (+% armour tree nodes and jewels). There is an opportunity cost to pay for that of course, but it is very possible. Low life version is still more tanky, no question about it. Until you stand in chaos stupid that is...

For laughs, I made a curse bot variant with Doedre's Skin. I had to get a second astramentis with the charisma anoint (and fiddle about with JUST the right amount of mana reserved from the tree). Now I can swap my chest, the amulett and one ring and I can be an immortal curse bot.

I enjoyed the option of a simple switch from solo viable to being a support char.

"

Zehelius_Thoris wrote:

Do you intend to actually update the build guide or are you only gonna make the note on the pastebin?

Yes, I'm going to update the guide. :) I just need to find the time to do so along with some IRL stuff going on.

"

Vatinas wrote:

"

Zehelius_Thoris wrote:

Do you intend to actually update the build guide or are you only gonna make the note on the pastebin?

Yes, I'm going to update the guide. :) I just need to find the time to do so along with some IRL stuff going on.

just wanted to be 100% sure before i fully commited to use your build as my league starter since im sure Herald of Agony can carry me in maps til i get the spiders :D

"

Vatinas wrote:

"

Zehelius_Thoris wrote:

Do you intend to actually update the build guide or are you only gonna make the note on the pastebin?

Yes, I'm going to update the guide. :) I just need to find the time to do so along with some IRL stuff going on.

Take your time man... This has been my favorite build for the last few leagues but it'll be the first time to league start with it. Hopefully SRS will carry me well enough till I get the fang

I was playing around with the build, haven't changes a lot of it, just trying to keep it working, this came out:

https://pastebin.com/tKLUZQZp

Any thoughts? Sugestions?

Hi again everyone!

I finally got around to updating the guide! I'm sorry for taking so long. But I updated everything, and added a detailed league starter guide.

Thanks to livejamie's input, I followed some of his ideas, and managed to build a CI version of the build that seems much better than the LL version - more ES, more damage, immunity to chaos damage. The only downside is that the armour is a tiiiiny bit lower, but it should be barely noticeable. I still include the LL version in the guide for the sake of completeness, but I might end up removing up altogether if it turns out the CI version is, indeed, all around better and not much more expensive.

I really want to thank livejamie, as well as all the others who offered their ideas. Like I said earlier in the thread, sharing ideas is what makes builds move forward, and I wouldn't have tried to make a CI version if you guys hadn't been there to mention it. So thank you again for your ideas. :)

(livejamie, since I inspired myself from your version, I mentioned you in the special thanks. You did an amazing job figuring out some stuff I hadn't thought of)

I hope you all have a good league! May the exalts fall upon you <3

I love the updates to the guide. Im super sold on it now Ill be following the new PoB but doing a league starter version until I can acquire the uniques. I think it looks even better as CI and the damage is still solid as for a nerfed HoP.

Thanks for doing the hard work for us.

WIPE HYPE!

MAY IT RAIN MIRRORS ON YOU GOOD SIR!