Cyclone

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Bitharne wrote:

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Fillmore wrote:

So why should it scale damage and not attack speed? The reason for this is that you want the skill to be ideal for fast attacking weapons and the characters that use them. The problem is that those people already have skill nodes invested in attack speed and use fast weapons so giving more attack speed is diminishing returns; the biggest beneficiaries of increased attack speed will be those who don't have much or any of it via skill nodes and use slow weapons. What you have now is a skill that is thematically appealing to Fast Attacking Dexterity-based and likely Dual Wielding characters, but mathematically appealing to Strength-based slow hitting and likely 2H or 1H+Shield (particularly because of the vulnerability of a Cycloning toon) character. It is astonishing how many games do not back up their themes with actual mechanics that mathematically support the theme they are representing.

Um...what? Have you ever done math involving attack speed before? 1% attack speed and 1% damage are identical no matter what. Go do the math with any number of weapons and speeds. It might not seem that intuitive. But I assure you it is...I spent a silly amount of time right before D3 came out (ugh) working numbers on skills and weapons. The only time speed and damage are not equal is when you take flat numbers into account.

For instance, if you add 10 damage, it's better on a fast weapon...that's mostly it though. I wonder about the cruel reward of 12% Physical damage at 6% attack speed though. I suppose its a way to boost physical and 6% flat damage would kinda be lame.

As for Cyclone itself...i'm not sure what it is intended to be honestly. As a main AoE attack it is simply not strong enough. As movement it is too slow, unwieldy, expensive, and limited. You can't stop once you start, you can't jump ledges like leap slam (though it does do more damage than this I think), and it gets you there slower than LS.

My best thought for this skill is as a combat support skill. Used to reposition in combat like Leap Slam, however it will impart decentish damage while doing it. I still think that if that's the case it's just not a worthwhile skill outside of "being cool."

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Rory wrote:

new builds designed to work specifically with Cyclone.

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Real_Wolf wrote:

The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.

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BazzV5 wrote:

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Real_Wolf wrote:

The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.

Not sure how much time you spent with the gem but the skill attack distance is not fixed.

The end point of the attack is the position where you clicked your mouse.

Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood your point.

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colexian wrote:

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BazzV5 wrote:

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Real_Wolf wrote:

The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.

Not sure how much time you spent with the gem but the skill attack distance is not fixed.

The end point of the attack is the position where you clicked your mouse.

Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood your point.

(I believe) He means the minimum fixed movement distance.
There is a minimum you have to click away from your toon before you can use the skill.

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colexian wrote:

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BazzV5 wrote:

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Real_Wolf wrote:

The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.

Not sure how much time you spent with the gem but the skill attack distance is not fixed.

The end point of the attack is the position where you clicked your mouse.

Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood your point.

(I believe) He means the minimum fixed movement distance.
There is a minimum you have to click away from your toon before you can use the skill.

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Bitharne wrote:

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Fillmore wrote:

So why should it scale damage and not attack speed? The reason for this is that you want the skill to be ideal for fast attacking weapons and the characters that use them. The problem is that those people already have skill nodes invested in attack speed and use fast weapons so giving more attack speed is diminishing returns; the biggest beneficiaries of increased attack speed will be those who don't have much or any of it via skill nodes and use slow weapons. What you have now is a skill that is thematically appealing to Fast Attacking Dexterity-based and likely Dual Wielding characters, but mathematically appealing to Strength-based slow hitting and likely 2H or 1H+Shield (particularly because of the vulnerability of a Cycloning toon) character. It is astonishing how many games do not back up their themes with actual mechanics that mathematically support the theme they are representing.

Um...what? Have you ever done math involving attack speed before? 1% attack speed and 1% damage are identical no matter what. Go do the math with any number of weapons and speeds. It might not seem

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PyrosEien wrote:

You can click closer, but it moves you further than you clicked in that direction.