Cyclone

I'm really trying to figure out why I would ever want to use this ability over Cleave.

While dual wielding foils and having it linked with Mana Leech (no cost increase) and Weapon Elemental it does 145 DPS with Hatred and Anger up and it costs a whoppin' 52 mana. By comparison if I use Cleave with the same links it does 532 DPS and costs 13 mana (both gems leveled).

It's a badass looking ability, and I would easily toss money at the cyclone effect animations, but there's no reason to use it. If anything it'd just be a death trap at higher levels.

It would be really cool if someone from GGG that did internal testing could shed some light on how to use it effectively and make it worth it. In Kripp's chat I saw Brian_GGG say that the skill was powerful in their internal testing and if that's the case, I'm missing something.

This seems like the perfect n00b trap skill.

Any reason you can't interrupt it? Technical, or intended?

"

Undon3 wrote:

This seems like the perfect n00b trap skill.

Any reason you can't interrupt it? Technical, or intended?

You actually can interrupt it with Lightning Warp, not sure if it's intended or not though. I believe they made it so you can't just click to interrupt it as a risk vs reward concept.

Well due to the low dmg effectiveness you can rule out physical builds since armor is more effective against low dmg.

Ele dmg builds do the same damage whether high or low so logically u should use ele-weapons with this skill.

Thanks for this awesome skill GGG! I only wonder,are the increased area of effect passives affect cyclone? If yes, why the range is so low? That's the only thing that seems wrong to me!

Lightning thorns absoluely murders me instantly using cyclone. And I've never had a problem with it before through numerous melee characters. Big hp, max lightning resists yada yada. Leech, regen, etc. Means nothing. Virtually instant death.

I hate to post without adding anything to the conversation, but I would only be repeating what has been said here.
The way HP scales status ailments and armor scales against damage, fast small attacks are utter garbage in this game versus slow hard hitting attacks.
The aoe size is garbage.
The mana cost is garbage.
The locked movement is garbage.
The minimum movement range is garbage.
The inability to spin in place is garbage.
The 35% effectiveness (which due to the way armor scales, IS NOT 70% damage effectiveness since it attacks twice.) is garbage.
I thought they were adding this skill to fix the gimply broken claws shadow CI ghost reaver build, but dual wielding with this is also garbage.
Prognosis: This skill is garbage.

Not a game creator here or anything, but a tip to the GGG staff.
MAKE YOUR NEW STUFF OP.
Seriously.
Make new skills shiny and overpowered.
Nerf them later if you have to.
But releasing crappy useless skills only makes the public mistrust your ability to make good skills in the future. (Personally I know I do. The two newest skills released are utter useless garbage outclasses in every way by another skills.)
Give us something shiny and fun that is flavor of the month!
If my choice was to have a crappy skill that MIGHT get buffed later (like incinerate, which didnt get buffed into any amount of usefulness) or an overpowered new skill that I can actually be excited about that will get nerfed later, GIVE US THE LATTER OPTION!
I want exciting! I want new! I want flavor of the month!
I don't want crap garbage skills that are completely outclassed by existing skills!
Hashtag Disappointed.

Part of what made WW so good for old D2 barbs was the small little ww.

No barb worth his metal ever did long WW (in D2 classic at least), as in Chaos Sanc you would have a stupid iron maiden curse and die, so you just spun against the small enemies, making small precise movements.

The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.

If it allowed the user to control movement with smaller bursts of cyclone it might be useful, you could play it safe and only spin around when you want, and with increased movement speed also control how long it takes, but when you have to move 1/5 of the screen every time, its just too dangerous, you have to be careful you don't over-aggro other enemies by just spinning past the small group you are trying to kill

Here's an idea:


allow the user to recast cyclone while currently cycloning in order to change trajectory. Change the fixed mana cost to a cost per second drain (with a small penalty cost for recasting it)

"

Fillmore wrote:

So why should it scale damage and not attack speed? The reason for this is that you want the skill to be ideal for fast attacking weapons and the characters that use them. The problem is that those people already have skill nodes invested in attack speed and use fast weapons so giving more attack speed is diminishing returns; the biggest beneficiaries of increased attack speed will be those who don't have much or any of it via skill nodes and use slow weapons. What you have now is a skill that is thematically appealing to Fast Attacking Dexterity-based and likely Dual Wielding characters, but mathematically appealing to Strength-based slow hitting and likely 2H or 1H+Shield (particularly because of the vulnerability of a Cycloning toon) character. It is astonishing how many games do not back up their themes with actual mechanics that mathematically support the theme they are representing.

Um...what? Have you ever done math involving attack speed before? 1% attack speed and 1% damage are identical no matter what. Go do the math with any number of weapons and speeds. It might not seem that intuitive. But I assure you it is...I spent a silly amount of time right before D3 came out (ugh) working numbers on skills and weapons. The only time speed and damage are not equal is when you take flat numbers into account.

For instance, if you add 10 damage, it's better on a fast weapon...that's mostly it though. I wonder about the cruel reward of 12% Physical damage at 6% attack speed though. I suppose its a way to boost physical and 6% flat damage would kinda be lame.

As for Cyclone itself...i'm not sure what it is intended to be honestly. As a main AoE attack it is simply not strong enough. As movement it is too slow, unwieldy, expensive, and limited. You can't stop once you start, you can't jump ledges like leap slam (though it does do more damage than this I think), and it gets you there slower than LS.

My best thought for this skill is as a combat support skill. Used to reposition in combat like Leap Slam, however it will impart decentish damage while doing it. I still think that if that's the case it's just not a worthwhile skill outside of "being cool."