Game of thrones thread go! [ S8 ]
" What hints? That the NK has blue eyes, as said by Melisandre? Have you noticed that Littlefinger also has blue eyes, and was killed by Arya (not to mention that that line could easily be generic, since she lists three very real eye colors present on very much living people, not just the dead)? Or was it the dagger? Valyrian steel, which almost everyone at that battle was armed with. Or that Beric died saving her? Aka he who endured multiple deaths over his life to do this one thing that virtually any other nameless character could've done? You also have to contend with the fact that you're putting that up against the mountains of buildup both narratively and lorewise that suggests it would be Jon or Dany. And the manner in which it happened renders Bran pretty damn underwhelming too. Then there's the fact that the execution was a mess - if they were going to make it Arya, at least let her do it in a way that no one else can (for instance, she could've been using her face powers to be impersonating Bran in the grove, albeit that would've required some re-writing of the episode). Sneaking around is not a unique skill, and being able to sneak past supernatural entities whose abilities have been demonstrated to extend even unto weather control is even less likely. You think 'she trained the entire show' makes it makes sense? The NK has been building up power for 10000 years! If that's not deserving of an epic sendoff, what is? Also, consider this - if the NK was so easy to kill, and his generals and foot soldiers so oblivious, then why not just have Arya sent up to the White Walker army on an assassination mission? She could've used her awesome sneak abilities that she's 'trained the entire show for' to get close to him and kill him without even needing a battle and any loss of life (not even, as it turns out, hers). It becomes the classic LotR question then - why didn't they just ride the Eagles to Mt. Doom ('cept, unlike here, there actually is a reason for that one in the lore for those who care to look into it)? If you want Arya to get the kill, fine. But D&D absolutely are expected to have worked hard to make that fit in, not toss it in out of nowhere, and in an improbable manner too, and then fall back claiming there were a few subtle clues hinted here and there (which themselves don't even hold up). I mean, Arya jumping ninja-style on the NK while screaming in a decidedly un-ninja like manner is perhaps the best metaphor for how well thought out this 'twist' was.  Last edited by Exile009 on May 7, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
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I was kinda bummed it was Arya too since she has almost no active involvement in the plot so far in the books. But hey, she is a girl, you gotta show strong women all the time everywhere otherwise you'd be labeled as a misogynist.
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" I've dealt with your 'hints' above, so now let's look at execution. Actually, I've dealt with that too above, so rather now let's do the constructive side of things. No one likes empty criticism, right? So here's an idea for how the show could've still let Arya kill the NK while still allowing it to make some sense. Mind you that this doesn't excuse all the rest of that episode's flaws, like the plot armor or the atrocious battle tactics. It just gives them the 'twist' they were going for, while not making it look like absolute garbage (hopefully, I'm no writer). This is just an outline, it would require some re-writing of preceding events to make happen. Anyway -
Spoiler
have Bran use his warging powers to attract the NK LotR-style (aka the NK can see Bran when he does that, just as Sauron could sense Frodo when he wore the ring). Tbf, D&D might very well have been going for that in the actual episode when they had Bran warg, but they failed to show the NK responding to it and so whether that was the purpose is left unclear. However, after doing that, Arya switches places with Bran, using her Faceless Men powers to impersonate him (aka this whole gambit was planned). The NK arrives in the grove, and so do Jon and Dany (on her dragon above). Jon's dragon keeps the NK's dragon at bay. We then have an epic duel between the NK and Jon (hopefully with flaming sword courtesy Melisandre, or maybe just some oil ala Beric-style) + Theon, while Dany attempts to provide support from above but gets tangled up fighting the White Walker generals with their Olympic spearthrowing skills (and the wights if she lands). Still, both the NK and his forces are actually occupied, and therefore distracted, while the good guys need to be wary that Bran doesn't get in trouble. At some point, the NK proves his dominance by overpowering Jon, but before he can kill him, Theon gets in the way and therefore actually dies meaningfully (as opposed to just being a minute too early with his stupid charge, before the guy he was trying to kill dies anyway). Jon gets to kick the NK back as he gets back up, right at 'Bran'. The NK sees his moment, and takes 'Bran' hostage - not, mind you, that he needs a hostage, but he just wants Jon to see his victory as he kills Bran (who, if we could rewrite more than just this episode, hopefully actually has been shown to have some mystical significance). However, just as the NK raises 'Bran' up to deliver the coup-de-grace (or, alternately, to convert 'him' into a White Walker as well), 'Bran' removes his facemask to reveal Arya - just as she presses a little Valyrian steel dagger into his chest. BOOM! NK dies, and so does his army just as depicted in the episode.
Also, hopefully Melisandre dies using the last of her magic to light up Jon's sword or something (or maybe just when she struggled to light up the trenches earlier) so that her death makes more sense too, as opposed to just "Oof! My role in prophecy is over - which is code for 'the writers don't need me anymore' - and so Imma go commit suicide now!" Which is to say, let her die actually doing something, not tossing herself away like some unnecessary rubbish. Ditto Beric. Btw, you could rightfully ask why they were fighting to keep the NK away from 'Bran' in the first place, if the plan was to let 'him' kill him when the NK got close? Well, this version would require Arya to have opened up about her Faceless Men abilities before the battle (hopefully before this episode) so they could plan around that. Presumably they'd show her lacking in confidence that she could really fool the NK - and hopefully they'd presage it even better by showing her having a close encounter with him at some point earlier and him seeing through her when up close, but that's a lot of prefacing so let's just go with her lacking in confidence to keep it simple. Hopefully, the fight at the end is preceded by the NK getting close to 'Bran' and then pausing, tilting his head to indicate he senses something is off, before Jon and Theon jump at him and begin the sequence. Then later when the NK raises 'Bran' up to kill him, he doesn't get suspicious because he's distracted while in the middle of a protracted fight. You could even emphasize this further by having Dany get a free moment to try spitting a gout of flame at him then, but hesitating when she sees him holding up 'Bran'. He smirks at her (if you really have to include him smirking, now would be a good time for it), then turns to Jon and, just as he's about to do his thing, the wool is pulled and Arya gets her kill. There! Is that resolution any good? I don't know. Probably not. I did write it up just now off the top of my head, and with the constraint that Arya had to be the savior and it had to be done in one episode. But I'm willing to venture that it's better than what they went with in the actual episode. It allows Arya to be instrumental in killing the NK by doing something only she can do, she also gets the kill itself, while Jon and Dany play a pivotal role in the fight, Theon doesn't die as pointlessly and neither does Melisandre and, most of all, it shows they actually had a damn plan for how to kill him. The NK is a prophetic villain - the least you can do is not have him killed off by a damn deus ex machina! Edit: I just realized another bonus of doing it this way, and it's exactly what the directors love - drama! Thing is, it's possible that Bran would have to die in order for Arya to use his face. It's a little unclear on this, as Jaqen H'ghar was able to wear Arya's face earlier despite that she's not dead (though some have suggested that Arya hallucinated that whole thing). But I don't actually mind if this is required - Bran's arc is all about the Night King (Sam or Jon himself can tell the other Starks' about his true identity in episode 4), so if he had to die to let this plan play out, so be it. It even makes for a great dramatic moment and further character development, if we're made to realize later that Arya herself had to have killed her brother in order to do this. Last edited by Exile009 on May 14, 2019, 5:54:56 PM
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Definitely keen for one more messed-up face-wearing stint from Arya before this is done and dusted.
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" Bbad was a great show, no question. Enjoyed Jesse's story within it immensely, too. Haven't seen Saul, oddly I guess. " 2: You mean people will go with the one they prefer. 3. Yes that does clear that one up. 4. 5. Yes, it really does. From just that, I imagine she describes your differences in quite different terms, too. Noticed you new signature. related, article published today in PC gamer, may as well stick it here, though there are a couple of what vidya gaem should i play next/ review type threads. Not inclined to start a new one, anyway. | |
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Just logged in to the forums after a break, I'm not reading through this thread but I'm curious. Anyone else here thinks season 8 has been complete trash so far? And especially that abomination of an ending in episode 3.
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" Episode 1 was meh. Episode 2 was pretty good. Episode 3 was meh. Episode 4 was trash. So overall meh with a tendency toward trash. 4/10 at best. GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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The fucking leaks I've seen them all god dammit like I actually TIL that one of the writers was the one who made X-MEN Wolverine origins FFS LOL
FUCKING BAD.COM Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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" Episode 3 was not meh for me, it was the biggest dissapointement in TV history. I was so hyped for this episode and by the time it ended I just wanted to throw up. It legit killed the show for me. Episode 4 was just a laughable mess. Btw I have seen the famous leakes as well, it is sooooo fucking bad. This season is a sad twisted joke. | |
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Like I can't fanthom on how anyone would think that's good as a writer I pray it isn't true but all those leaks were 100% accurate every single of those season 8 leaks were all true so.
F U C K Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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