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Vaildez wrote:

Most will be stuck at 78 it seems... 82 would require a corrupted empower, 10EX Wand, +1 Int Gem Neck, Unnatural Strength, +1 Spectre Boots.

Well, this is the budget we were always accostumed to pay for spectre gear, expensive and yet somewhat shitty version of the gear to have 5 of them going.

A semi-dedicated player would be paying about 40ex approximately to have 5 spectres going on the second to third week. That is approximately what I paid for average to good versions of the items.

To me, this is already too much and should not have been nerfed. But, I think it was nerfed because GGG had a design decision to nerf everything accross the board, bringing the global powercreep to a stage close to leagues before.

It is a bit concerning because they are widening the gap between elite and common players with this move. But, lets see how it all plays in practice.

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barathustra wrote:

"

Vaildez wrote:

Most will be stuck at 78 it seems... 82 would require a corrupted empower, 10EX Wand, +1 Int Gem Neck, Unnatural Strength, +1 Spectre Boots.

Well, this is the budget we were always accostumed to pay for spectre gear, expensive and yet somewhat shitty version of the gear to have 5 of them going.

A semi-dedicated player would be paying about 40ex approximately to have 5 spectres going on the second to third week. That is approximately what I paid for average to good versions of the items.

To me, this is already too much and should not have been nerfed. But, I think it was nerfed because GGG had a design decision to nerf everything accross the board, bringing the global powercreep to a stage close to leagues before.

It is a bit concerning because they are widening the gap between elite and common players with this move. But, lets see how it all plays in practice.

I wouldn't mind going back to Necros not being meta so prices drop... It wasn't that long ago I could get an Unending Hunter in a league for 5c. The funny thing is the power level between then and now hasn't changed that much. Just a few broken mechanics and Spectres that were abused.

"

Vaildez wrote:

"

you said it in a way that made it sound like level 83 does 33% as much damage as level 84 but now you say 78 does 75% as much which would mean even if we took the previous statement the opposite way as meaning 83 does 66% the damage of 84, 78 is now doing more damage than 83.

Spectres still seem fine.

Yep... This threshold thing is something I wasn't aware of and I am hoping someone else will do the math on if it's worth the empower gem to get Spectres to 82 =). I don't think Spectres are going to have any troubles with mapping but I think supplementing the build with Skeletons might be the way to go for bosses.

Yep, we will need to supplement DPS with something like Spiders, or Mage Skeletons for clearing while using high single target DPS specters for bossing. Will be fun to figure all this out, I enjoy a challenge.

The threshold thing is a physical spectra problem like mentioned in the last comment Redemption Sentry/ Redemption Knight / Primal Crushclaw have a XXX% of Damage added to their attacks. This is different from castes which always have fixed damage numbers there.
The problem is that the three specters mentioned above do 101% damage till level 83. Only if you reach 84 you get 300% of damage.

This means physical Specters 83 and below will do 30% of their damage (a little bit less because their base damage is also smaller at lower levels).

Caster Specters will lose 5-10% (don’t checked all the numbers there). per level which has no threshold

Example:
https://poedb.tw/us/Primal_Crushclaw#Lvl84
Default Attack: Deals 300% of Damage
https://poedb.tw/us/Primal_Crushclaw#Lvl78
Default Attack: Deals 101% of Damage
-> 33% of the original damage (a little bit less because base damage is also smaller)
----
https://poedb.tw/us/Frost_Auto-Scout#Lvl84
MPSHeistRobotClockworkGolemBasicProjectile: Deals 2630 to 3945 Cold Damage (3.287,5)
https://poedb.tw/us/Frost_Auto-Scout#Lvl78
MPSHeistRobotClockworkGolemBasicProjectile: Deals 1923 to 2885 Cold Damage (2.404)
-> 73% of the original damage

And just because i am writing here … Big thanks Kayella for the very nice guide which I am using for some years now.

"

Erzengel82 wrote:

The threshold thing is a physical spectra problem like mentioned in the last comment Redemption Sentry/ Redemption Knight / Primal Crushclaw have a XXX% of Damage added to their attacks. This is different from castes which always have fixed damage numbers there.
The problem is that the three specters mentioned above do 101% damage till level 83. Only if you reach 84 you get 300% of damage.

This means physical Specters 83 and below will do 30% of their damage (a little bit less because their base damage is also smaller at lower levels).

Caster Specters will lose 5-10% (don’t checked all the numbers there). per level which has no threshold

Example:
https://poedb.tw/us/Primal_Crushclaw#Lvl84
Default Attack: Deals 300% of Damage
https://poedb.tw/us/Primal_Crushclaw#Lvl78
Default Attack: Deals 101% of Damage
-> 33% of the original damage (a little bit less because base damage is also smaller)
----
https://poedb.tw/us/Frost_Auto-Scout#Lvl84
MPSHeistRobotClockworkGolemBasicProjectile: Deals 2630 to 3945 Cold Damage (3.287,5)
https://poedb.tw/us/Frost_Auto-Scout#Lvl78
MPSHeistRobotClockworkGolemBasicProjectile: Deals 1923 to 2885 Cold Damage (2.404)
-> 73% of the original damage

So to sum things up Physical Spectres were insanely nerfed... While Caster Spectres seem to be fine. I've mostly played caster Spectres anyhow but sucks for others. 84 is still achievable but you would have to sacrifice a lot and I just don't see how it would ever be worth it.

Should we usa a global channel for sharing spectres?

"

Vaildez wrote:

"

Erzengel82 wrote:

The threshold thing is a physical spectra problem like mentioned in the last comment Redemption Sentry/ Redemption Knight / Primal Crushclaw have a XXX% of Damage added to their attacks. This is different from castes which always have fixed damage numbers there.
The problem is that the three specters mentioned above do 101% damage till level 83. Only if you reach 84 you get 300% of damage.

This means physical Specters 83 and below will do 30% of their damage (a little bit less because their base damage is also smaller at lower levels).

Caster Specters will lose 5-10% (don’t checked all the numbers there). per level which has no threshold

Example:
https://poedb.tw/us/Primal_Crushclaw#Lvl84
Default Attack: Deals 300% of Damage
https://poedb.tw/us/Primal_Crushclaw#Lvl78
Default Attack: Deals 101% of Damage
-> 33% of the original damage (a little bit less because base damage is also smaller)
----
https://poedb.tw/us/Frost_Auto-Scout#Lvl84
MPSHeistRobotClockworkGolemBasicProjectile: Deals 2630 to 3945 Cold Damage (3.287,5)
https://poedb.tw/us/Frost_Auto-Scout#Lvl78
MPSHeistRobotClockworkGolemBasicProjectile: Deals 1923 to 2885 Cold Damage (2.404)
-> 73% of the original damage

So to sum things up Physical Spectres were insanely nerfed... While Caster Spectres seem to be fine. I've mostly played caster Spectres anyhow but sucks for others. 84 is still achievable but you would have to sacrifice a lot and I just don't see how it would ever be worth it.

It would be great asking GGG in reddit if that is indeed the case and its just not an error in poeDB or some broken numeric value that does not compute in the actual game.

I say that because it never felt this way. That would be a massive increase in damage and very noticeable. I'll make a test for it and see if it really feels this way.

"

Odif wrote:

At the 57 minute mark, Balormage gives some VERY important info on just how drastic the Spectre Nerf is.

New spectres scale dps with threshold levels, and the spectre level 84 threshold is KEY, level 83 is about 1/3 the damage of level 84.

Do you trust a streamer or Openarl who wrote POB with info about minion scaling directly from GGG? I remember he posted about finally getting correct scaling info and adding a lot of spectres to POB.

Some problems with Balor's idea:

Firstly, monster skill with bonus damage is not new. It's in the game since beta. Vaal Fallen from Act 2 has monster version of Elemental Hit which has the same damage bonus. The game file says:
active_skill_damage_+%_final 1,levelRequirement 21
active_skill_damage_+%_final 200, levelRequirement 84

Secondly, Openarl wrote POB to calculate spectre damage on a scale.
So when Vaal Fallen is
level 83: bonus is 197%,
level 84: 200%,
level 85: 203%.

Lastly, when you use +1 monster level watchstone to run T17 maps (monster level 84), do some monsters suddenly do 200% more damage compared to T16 (monsters level 83)?

I think the game files use level 84 because it's the highest monster level without mods (shaper's realm). Only Synthesis and watchstone can spawn higher than 84.


I don't think there is a 'threshold'.

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Edit:

Another point. if you believe that it is threshold. Then all spell spectres are also weak since open beta.

Flame Sentinel fireball has this scaling:

spell_minimum_base_fire_damage 0.8
spell_maximum_base_fire_damage 1.2
levelRequirement = 3

spell_minimum_base_fire_damage 2.11
spell_maximum_base_fire_damage 3.17
levelRequirement = 68



Does Flame Sentinel do 0.8 to 1.2 damage from Act 3 until maps (or level 68 spectre) and then sudden change to 2.11 to 3.17?

The threshold thing is not true, i just tested it, done 2 white minotaurs and 2 white hydras really fast and it felt exactly the same for 83 and 84.

Test it and see it, if you can. No noticeable difference.

Rest assured that this is not valid, this is probably nothing but a glitch on the db.

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