[3.9] Pure Phys Skeletons & Friends Necromancer — Beginner/SSF/Budget Build

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kodosderhenker wrote:

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Boltonsquads wrote:

Multistrike cannot support Vaal Skills, so you would have to lose Vaal Summon Skeletons.

It just doesn't work with the Vaal Version of the skill which means 6-Link Skeletons and 5-Link Vaal Skeletons if you use.


Melee Splash VS Multistrike is less Area Damage while more single target DPS and Multistrike also attacks other valid targets in range

I guess without investing into Area Damage for Minions Multistrike is the better

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bhumabau wrote:

The build is great, ty mate! I have question, is there any mob that generate undurance charges for my scpectres?

Hairy Bonecrusher for Enduring Cry or Oak's Devoted/Fists for Warlord's Mark (both Act 2)

Vaal summon skeletons have non-vaal version of itself, and multistrike should work with it

I removed Vaal Summon Skeletons personally for a 21/20 Skeleton gem, the damage from the Vaal one's aren't needed in my opinion, I'm coming up to 7M Shaper/Guardian DPS now.

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Boltonsquads wrote:

I removed Vaal Summon Skeletons personally for a 21/20 Skeleton gem, the damage from the Vaal one's aren't needed in my opinion, I'm coming up to 7M Shaper/Guardian DPS now.

Did you evaluate what I mentioned in https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2108003/page/58#p22382112 ?

I'm surprised there has been no discussion on the potential for approx. 40% overall dmg increase along with all the other benefits and minion survivability.

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Patchumz wrote:

Yes, exactly. If your skeletons are doing stupid amounts of damage, your singular hits end up being wasted on overkill damage. If you can instead split it into multiple hits you can essentially double the amount of mobs your skeletons kill, while not sacrificing any DPS for single target. Multistrike is a hair less than 60% more DPS as a support now, after the changes.

I'm confused by this. If you are doing stupid amounts of damage, then the splash of that damage is very high as well. Multistrike guarantees 2 more targets hit per an attack, but most of our map clearing and more importantly blights most certainly has the splash hitting more than 2 additional per attack. So for those scenarios why would multistrike be better?

In regards to single target, ruthless still dominates multistrike for damage so you'll still be swapping that in and wouldn't be using multistrike anyways.

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ZeroCloud wrote:

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Patchumz wrote:

Yes, exactly. If your skeletons are doing stupid amounts of damage, your singular hits end up being wasted on overkill damage. If you can instead split it into multiple hits you can essentially double the amount of mobs your skeletons kill, while not sacrificing any DPS for single target. Multistrike is a hair less than 60% more DPS as a support now, after the changes.

I'm confused by this. If you are doing stupid amounts of damage, then the splash of that damage is very high as well. Multistrike guarantees 2 more targets hit per an attack, but most of our map clearing and more importantly blights most certainly has the splash hitting more than 2 additional per attack. So for those scenarios why would multistrike be better?

In regards to single target, ruthless still dominates multistrike for damage so you'll still be swapping that in and wouldn't be using multistrike anyways.

Wtf? Do you really think 1.44 multiplication of ruthless is better, then 1.58 multiplication from multistrike?
Ruthless is good only if you use it with multistrike, that increases bonus of damage to 1.51.

Think I'll keep with splash, until I have enough minion attack speed for them not to be locked in place for too long, then seems like multi will be better.
The vaal summon issue isn't really a problem, when you need the damage i.e single target, splash isn't helping anyway so it's not really a loss.

Thank you so much for this build!

I'm having tons of fun and I am destroying everything on my path so far.

My gear is not the best, because I like to craft my own, however, it works very well for me. It gives me 75% chaos res as well as maxed out other resists which I've never had before on any character other than CI. I've also dropped the small life nodes on marauder start in favour of pathing to Indomitable Army and Aligned Spirits for minion damage/mana/minion tankiness.

My gear so far:


For my next upgrades I will try to go for +1 convoking wand using bound fossil. If I get 2 more golden oils then I may try for a better amulet before I anoint Soul of Steel on it. I am also waiting for a good lab day to farm enchants for helmet/boots.

I would recommend this build to anyone, it works without any gear and has great potential for upgrades in end game!

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Uoykai wrote:

Wtf? Do you really think 1.44 multiplication of ruthless is better, then 1.58 multiplication from multistrike?
Ruthless is good only if you use it with multistrike, that increases bonus of damage to 1.51.

I didn't have those numbers, so I couldn't draw that conclusion. I simply had the DPS calculated in PoB. Are you indicating that PoB does not properly calculate the DPS for these particular gems right now? I know of some other gems that are not fully supported or bugged, but had not heard it in relation to these.

Damage against single targets is Ruthless > Fortify > Multistrike

while Maim Support is the biggest damage boost if the enemy is maimed and there is no other source (otherwise the damage multiplier is equal to Multistrike)

with just the basic tree, no equipment and 20/20 gems the 5-link base with Melee Splash is 190k damage in PoB
280k with Ruthless, 260k with Fortify and 250k with Multistrike or Maim

but there are several disadvantages for Ruthless and Melee Splash and Multistrike would fit in between them, being not as good against single targets or mobs but work for both (kind of)


So it is not only about pure damage but clear speed which PoB cannot calculate

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Uoykai wrote:

Wtf? Do you really think 1.44 multiplication of ruthless is better, then 1.58 multiplication from multistrike?
Ruthless is good only if you use it with multistrike, that increases bonus of damage to 1.51.

Why do you think Multistrike is 1.51? It is 1.2 in DPS calculation

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kodosderhenker wrote:

Why do you think Multistrike is 1.51? It is 1.2 in DPS calculation

Your math is soooo bad...
46% more attack speed
10% less attack damage (thought it is 11%)
1st hit - 0 bonus damage
2nd hit - 22% more damage
3rd hit - 44% more damage
so 3 hits gives us 22% more damage
so: 100%*1,46*0,91*1,22=160%
1,6 multiplier!!!!
and it is 20 lvl gem only

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ZeroCloud wrote:

I didn't have those numbers, so I couldn't draw that conclusion. I simply had the DPS calculated in PoB. Are you indicating that PoB does not properly calculate the DPS for these particular gems right now?

Ofc, pob doesn't know, how to calculate 2nd and 3rd hits.
so both gives us 0% more damage