[3.9] Pure Phys Skeletons & Friends Necromancer — Beginner/SSF/Budget Build

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Bainand wrote:

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Been trying (parts) of your build and it feels good!

You mind explaining a bit more about Ahn's block cap? And you believe no block cap is better than the +3 to max resists on Ahns? Will look for another shield. Could definitely use some more resists after switching the belt.

Thanks again.

My logic on not using ahn's (even though I think it is great for the previous build version) is as follows:

Ahn's has a modifier on it that caps block at 65% instead of 75%:
-10% to maximum Chance to Block Attack Damage

Block is super key for this version, especially when using a shield since you gain 750 health every time you block (My minions gain 1000 health per block, and I get 25% less from mistress passive).

I agree 3% all res is very strong on ahn's. Math would be (1-.75)/(1-0.78)-1 = 13.6% less elemental damage which is significant for ahns.

However, going from 75% block to 65% block would be (1-.65)/(1-.75)-1 = 40% more physical damage from losing max block.

I agree that block being binary is not as reliable as a flat reduction, same as how phase acrobatics 30% dodge is worth less than 30% flat reduction. But the 40% more physical from not being able to make block cap is way too much to ignore, plus the 750 health gained every time you block is AMAZING.

Think of it this way, if you are blocking 3/4 hits, and each blocked hit heals 750 health you are healing on average 2250 health for every 4 attacks you take, so hits under that (which is most monsters) actually dont budge your health when you have rumi's up, and that is not even considering passive regen of over 10%/second with stone golem. Going to 65% block reduces this massively.

On top of this (and this kicks ahn's completely out of the running), you can get 12% spell block on a rare shield for cheap. This takes me from 45% spell block with rumis to 57% which is a (1-.45)/(1-0.57)-1 = 27.9% spell damage reduction. This is WAY more than the 13.6% elemental from ahn's, plus it increases the heal I get from blocking. Ahn's does have the advantage of also reducing things that are unblockable like burning ground or clouds or beams, but there isn't much in the game that hurts that isn't blockable.

The math above means rare shield with 26%+ block and 12% spell block is WAAAYYY better than ahns for this build only. The original ahns is the best by far.

If you have trouble remembering to keep rumi's up, or have a poor rumi's, 30%+ block is better like on lionseye but then you lose the spell block from a rare shield.

Thanks again. Liking the build a lot.

Noo RNG love for me crafting a new body armour :( Annull/bricked it five times in a row. But found another shield and tweaked some other stuff.

Would you consider the notes around Sanctuary for even more blocking if you were using shield? Since you hold blocking in such high regard, I mean.

Seems too much of an investment imo. I don't think it's worth it considering it is not easily accessible and in your path.

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varmemester wrote:

Thanks again. Liking the build a lot.

Noo RNG love for me crafting a new body armour :( Annull/bricked it five times in a row. But found another shield and tweaked some other stuff.

Would you consider the notes around Sanctuary for even more blocking if you were using shield? Since you hold blocking in such high regard, I mean.

I considered the nodes around sanctuary, and think they can provide a lot of value, but I figured it was too many points to get there, and I have absolutely no survivability issues even with no shield. However, it may be an option for a low HP char (3-4k) similar how people were getting barbarism/juggernaut and the armor nodes in the bottom left of the tree with ahn's. May be very worth it to play around with at low gear levels.

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faytte wrote:

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Bainand wrote:

If you are using a shield and running brutality like the standard build (meaning you can get to max block easily, and you dont get the chaos dmg conversion from spirit offering) I would say bone offering is better. If running no shield and no brutality, I would say spirit offering as it gives some good dmg as well.

Is running brutality better over running a different damage mod + spirit offering presuming you can keep up all three offerings?

This actually depends on your stats and POB. When I was run lower levels of phys reduction (no 20% pride belt, no -9 phys helm, no mervail's vuln aura), it was a big increase to remove brutality to get the +chaos from spirit offering. However, now my gear has changed, an awakened brutality is actually significantly better than ruthless.

So, it will change depending on your gear if brutality is better. Here is my current POB with brutality (awakened) now back in the build.

Could anyone go through changes to be done if I wanna improve defense compared to the original post? Like playing with shield and which gems to swap around etc

So doing a little theory crafting is spending 4 points to get to Golem Commander really worth it? I don't know if I am missing something but our skeletons get a bigger boost just taking the damage or attack speed by rightous army on the left side. 4 points is an awful lot of points to spend for such a small increase to our skellies. And if you are running a chaos or stone golem it would free up a gem slot as well.

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velvetpaws12 wrote:

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Tainted_Turkey wrote:

Someone wrote that feeding fenzy applies to all minions when the buff is active. Is this correct? I only need one feeding frenzy gem on one minion type to affect all the others?

When I did this on the zombies, the skeletons did not seem to be affected and didn't appear dash around.

They only get the dash when the gem is socketed in their respective setup. You get the buff(and you can see it on your character too), but you don't get the minion status set to aggressive and the dash. I also think it is wisest to socket it in the carrion golem setup because when I tried it the other way around by putting it in the zombie setup I found out just how useful the meat shield zombies are at soaking projectiles. Their damage sucks anyway but they are excellent bullet sponges.

EDIT: I would also like to know if, when having the appropriate level of dexterity, it is worth socketing culling strike in the skellies setup. For example, which stat weight is valued higher? Minion damage or minion attack speed? And are there diminishing returns for stacking too much of one type(minion damage?) For instance I have no idea whether a full quality minion damage(59% minion damage) is actually better than 10% attack speed and 38% damage. I think culling strike shouldn't be neglected because it is 10% HP shaved off any tough boss, but I'm wondering how these stats work on the skellies compared to straight minion damage.

AG with Kingmaker is what people are using to provide culling strike.

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Tequ1la wrote:

AG with Kingmaker is what people are using to provide culling strike.

Is there a good cheat sheet of items for AG?

I get randomly oneshot in red maps with no dangerous map mods. need some defensive advice..

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Bainand wrote:

Awesomeness.

You bloody necro, you managed to raise me from my tomb. I thought this thread was done and dusted with 20 consecutive pages of "pls fix my build I can't read nor do research" and no single new idea, and there you come and revolutionise this build to make it even more awesome. Undisputed22 is right when saying that build version will reconcile a lot of people still fighting over Spirit vs Flesh Offering, and dps vs tankyness.
When you linked it I spent the first 5min in PoB like the others trying to see what you had done wrong until I realised what you had done right. Also nice to see my own handwriting in the jewel, happy to see some guys actually benefited from my previous input.

I will personally do the shield version with only 1 trigger wand, as I really like to feel as immortal as possible, and 3m vs 4m dps is worth it for me. I mean I'm at 2m currently with shield and don't feel like I need more dps. Still struggling to get an epic tier trigger wand but I probably just need to stop lazying and start fossil spamming.
For a similar reason I feel like keeping +40 life implicit on Leash belt might be worth it rather than the 3% dps from the Corrupted Implicit...
Also I'm definitely keeping MoM, 2.4k eHP isn't to be scoffed at. Keeping Pride in Essence worm and Dread Banner+Generosity reserving only 14% mana.

The sad thing is that I had just crafted this beauty:

Gonna lose some life swapping that out. Trying to get the most life I can out of shield and chest to compensate.

I disagree a bit on the choice of sending your zombies away and getting them aggressive. It helps a bit the clearing in low-tier map I suppose but in my experience the carrion golems are enough to propagate Maim with their AoE attacks. Having 12 zombies around me in defensive positions taunting/blinding anything that comes too close is unquantifiable but really good.
However Undisputed22's point about the Golem Commander also makes me thing I could sacrifice these 4 passives, lose 1 golem and add 4 passives for more life (since I'm losing my god-tier belt). Yes these passives give a bit of dps from the "increased effect of buffs granted by your Golems" but it's negligible and easily replaced by just 1 passive near Righteous Army as he correctly points out.
- 1 Carrion Golem is enough to give you Feeding Frenzy and enough to apply Maim on the few tanky targets we encounter. With 2 Maim would get apply on more mobs but we gain so much more dps with 3 offerings that I can afford to lose Maim on most small targets.
- I would think ~+20% max life (~400 actual max life) is better than the +105 life per second from Stone Golem. Especially with the Block dynamic healing us and nice potions. I discard the taunt from Stone Golem as all my minions already taunt.

Spectres-wise, currently running 2 Carnage chieftains, 1 Host Chieftain, 1 Merveil's retainer. 1 retainer seems to do a good enough job to curse targets that survive a few seconds. 1 Host chieftain is a bit low in terms of power charges, but the chieftains are mostly for bosses anyway (for mapping I summon new skeletons faster than they can be buffed - zoom zoom shield charge away!).

Pantheon-wise... given high block chance the stuff that might still be an issue is DoT damage. Maybe switching from Lunaris to Arakaali could be interesting? Losing Projectile avoidance and projectiles that have chained (kinda relevant when surrounded by an army), but the 5% reduced DoT dmg and 30% reduced effect of shock might be worth it?