[3.9] Pure Phys Skeletons & Friends Necromancer — Beginner/SSF/Budget Build

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Solanales wrote:

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Parhelius wrote:

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Solanales wrote:

Looking at your character in pob with your settings corrected I'm seeing this:

Just a quick request - any chance you could either explain the "corrected" settings, or link to a post/discussion that does? I'm having a hard time understanding how to select/change things in PoB to get the correct dps for skeles (not new to PoB, but this is my first minion build).

Sure thing! So there's a few things to make sure you're doing to properly see skeleton DPS especially with Impale. First is that you should grab the LocalIdentity fork of Path of Building. It has a ton of community contributed improvements as well as a number of fixed LocalIdentity has put in. You can find info on installing it here:

https://github.com/LocalIdentity/PathOfBuilding/wiki/Installing-this-Fork

Then after you import your character you should make sure you skeletons are selected on the left. Then head over to the configuration tab and check the following things depending on what you're using:

* If you're using Carnage Chieftain spectres select "Do Your Minions use Frenzy Charges
* If you're using Host Chieftain spectres select "Do Your Minions use Power Charges
* If you have Maim linked on your Carrion Golems select "Is the enemy Maimed"
* If Feeding Frenzy is linked on your Carrion Golems select "Is Feeding Frenzy Active"
* Set the "Is the enemy a boss?" to Shaper/Guardian

The rest is a bit more situational depending on skills you might use or not. For example, you can simulate the Doryani Jewel in PoB or simulate the damage/benefits an Animated Guardian is giving by altering Jewels. Those settings above are the basics though.

Thank you, I appreciate your help. Looks like I'm sitting at just under 200k dps including impale, so obviously a long way to go, but I only just hit mapping with this yesterday and I'm level 79 so plenty of points and gem levels to add.

What is ur setup for 4 spectres? Now i use 2 carnage and 1 host chieftain and dont know what to get for last slot, curse maybe? And drop curse from gems

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Rebur wrote:

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Solanales wrote:

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Undisputed22 wrote:

Just a little background on me. This is my first season ever in POE and I am completely obsessed. I actually play on Xbox because I was able to get about 5 other friends to all join in with me. I helped kickstart the Animate Guardian discussion and I want to do the same thing for something that hasn't really been tackled much by the group... Spectres.

Everyone seems to mostly assume that 2 Carnage Chieftains and 2 Host Chieftains are the best option since that was originally recommended. How many people have actually did any testing? I know Spectre's are a lot more complicated and people may be avoiding testing them because you can't just plug in changes in POB. I will do some testing over the next couple days. But one thing I saw in an early post that caught my eye was the splash damage on Slave Drivers. It may be worth just running 4 of them and dropping the Melee Splash Gem for good form all builds. If anyone else has any insight on Spectres or want's to do any testing feel free to chime in.

I've done some testing of Solar Guards as well as Slave Drivers. They do work just fine. I also messed around with the Vuln cursing Necros. They were interesting but ultimately unreliable.

I ended up back on the Host & Carnage chieftains just because the damage from them didn't feel noticeable enough to me on a 3 link even switching them over to Feeding Frenzy. I mean if you wanted to dedicate a 4 link to them on a piece of gear like gloves that could have some additional support that's possible.

I've been messing around with "Supported by Level 18 Blind" gloves for my zombies. It's possible that you could use Faster Attack Gloves with the spectres to boost them.

That said the thing that I always keep coming back to in this build is that the focus for me is the Skeletons and making them as strong as possible. There's seeming a million ways to boost other minions like the spectres, carrion golems, zombies, so on but the core of this build are the Skeletons so I just tend to stick with that theme and use the others as utility.

That's just my focus, but of course there's nothing wrong with messing around with the other minions too.

I have no idea if it's doing anything but I decided to try out a Vicious Hound since I could have only 3 Spectres. I decided based on what was said here: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/em13n2/ashe_ketchems_super_useful_spectre_list_acts_110/

I was also if I ever rolled a map with Area contains Sea Witches see if I could get a Mervell's Retainer since they are supposed to be able to cast a higher than a Gem Level you can get like Level 30 or so Vulnerability Curse. It is also supposed to cast the Curse frequently. But I never got to try it.

Nice find with the reddit post. I reviewed the full reddit post as well as input from everyone in the comments who seem to be very knowledgeable on spectres. Here is my initial thoughts.

Act 7 Ashen Fields has Carnage and Host Chieftains from what I can tell. Seems odd that this hasn't been mentioned with most people teleporting to 2 different locations to get their apes.

Ruins Hellion: Act 8 - The Quay, Act 8 - The Grain Gate
They have a Rallying Cry that applies a 30% Less Damage Taken debuff. People refer to it as Disgustingly overpowered and say it should be meta in hardcore. They also have an innspiring cry for 10% increase damage.

Mob vulnerability (whipping miscreants, merveil retainer, Armour crunchers and necros from cowards trial) is 50% increased damage taken as opposed to 39% from a level 20 gem (this is the same effect as a lvl 30 gem). They say it definitly is worth having in a pure phys/impale skelemancer/zombie build. One person said that the necros don't seem to want to curse but Merveils Retainer almost spazs out with how much she curses everything. The other options seem to cast the same Vulnerability on hit as opposed to the spell.

Seems like Merveil's retainer is the best bet but can only be found in maps that have "Area is inhabited by Sea Witches and their Spawn"

https://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Merveil%27s+Retainer
https://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Armour+Cruncher

Another Powerful Minion mentioned is the Reanimator which casts an enfeeble that is stronger than the lvl 20 gem and also raises zombies. He can be found in the Lunaris Temple lvl 1.
https://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Reanimator

My initial thoughts without testing is that the best set-up is 2 Carnage Chieftains (maybe 1 Carnage 1 Host), 1 Ruins Hellion, and 1 Merveil's Retainer.

The benefits would be Frenzy Charges from Apes, a taunting minion with a 30% less damage debuff, 10% increased damage cry, 50% increased physical damage taken debuff vulnerability (same as lvl 30 gem). I can't see how that doesn't improve what we are getting out of 4 spectres now. Is anyone who is better with Path of building able to try to input the data and see how it looks?

Expanding on that if we add a Chaos Golem in the helmet (replacing culling strike) for the 5% physical reduction (boosted by golem buffs) and a pride gem for up to 40% physical damage reduction in enemies we could be looking at some pretty insane buffs/debuffs. What is everyone's thoughts? Again this is my first season so I don't know all the nuances of the game like everyone who's been doing it for years.

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varmemester wrote:

Yeah, that's what I thought. It's confusing that the line "Minions deal x% increased damage" only regards the golems, while on wands, for instance, it means for all minions. Should be "Golems deal x% increased damage" or something. They do less increased dps for our skeletons than I originally thought. Only about 4% according to POB.

Yeah it makes a little more sense if you look at working on other similar minion gems like Summon Skeletons:

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Per 1% Quality
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Minions deal 1% increased Damage
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Summons (2-3) Skeleton Warriors
Maximum (5-8) Summoned Skeletons
Base duration is 20 seconds
Minions gain 50% more Added Damage

Similarly the "Minions gain 50% more Added Damage" and "Minions deal 1% increased Damage" per quality lines function in the same way. Basically with minion skill gems, just assume they're talking specifically about ONLY those minions on the gem unless it directly mentions other minions.

Like it would say "Other Minions gain 50% more Added Damage" or "Nearby Allies gain 50% more Added Damage" if it meant others. It's just how they do their wording on skill gems.

What should I focus on upgrading? Having trouble staying alive in t15+

So i've running Skeletons + impale + minion damage+ melee splash + melee phys. + Brutality

but ive seen some ppl run multistrike or ruthless which one is better now ?

I am playing this build since League start and i am enjoying it!
It is obvious, why it is becoming more and more popular, because it is ridiculously strong.

I am at Level 98 with 6.8k HP, 1.7k Mana and 3.3k ES with the Glorious Vanity Jewel and Spirit Offering. Chaos Resistance is at 51% and this is quiet comfortable.

All Bosses and fully juiced T16 Metamorphs are no threat. I Run T16 fully chiseled, Vaaled Bloodline Maps in 3mins.

This Build begins cheap, but you can invest heavy

And therefore I am loving it.
It might perform well on a low budget, but I had fun constantly upgrading my gear. And as Summon Skeletons grew more and more Meta this League, I even profited from it. For example I got 21/23 vaal summon Skeletons for 3ex very early this League and later on it was at 9ex. When i upgraded from my +1 minion skill gem convoking wands to some +1 minion skill gem and +1 all spell gem wands, I managed to sell those old wands for 2 ex each.

My two scents to this guide are

Dropping Brutality/Fortify from Zombies to a 3-Link Zombies-Minion Life-Meat Shield and socketing Enduring Cry bound to your Move Button (Left Mouse Button)
My Zombies never die, not even at A8 Sirus or shaper.

As i am rushing through maps i am always at 3 Endurance charges and this really helps for survivability.

Instead of the Well established Gem Setup with Skeletons-Impale-Minion Damage-Ruthless-Melee physical Damage-Multistrike I am running with Empower Level 4 for Multistrike, swapping it for Melee Splash in maps. POB says, the dps is likely the same, but at Vaal Skeletons Level 31 I have 13 Skeletons active at a time.

I lost some dps by dropping +15% attack- and cast-speed for my minions, but I got Trigger a socketed Spellon one wand, which is a game changer for me.
I only blink through the maps, spawning one group of skeletons per pack, cursing them with enfeeble and getting like 1600ES with Spirit offering. Overall it increases my clearspeed substantially.

My gear and my considerations

I farmed this gear worth like ~80-100ex over the last weeks and it did not feel like a grind, because farming currency is easy with this build.



I am considering dropping Mind Over Matter, respeccing 5 passive points for 2 more jewel slots and a 6%HP node. Then replacing essence worm with a nice unset ring with T1 life, Chaos res and resistances for the purpose of getting a T1 Life, %Life +1Active Skill gems Astral Plate.

Swapping Enhance Level 3 for skitterbots for even more Dps/chill along with the 2 additional jewels in the passive tree with even more Minion damage and %life.
Overall gaining ~1k life and 200ES, and a massive amount of offensive stats on the jewels, on the ring and the chest at the cost of losing 1500 mana and MoM.

I think, dropping MoM will be worth it, what do you think?

Then i would like to get some advice for potential upgrades on my gear alongside the obvious ones like getting 21/20 gems or Awakened Melee physical Damage.

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Undisputed22 wrote:

Nice find with the reddit post. I reviewed the full reddit post as well as input from everyone in the comments who seem to be very knowledgeable on spectres. Here is my initial thoughts.

Act 7 Ashen Fields has Carnage and Host Chieftains from what I can tell. Seems odd that this hasn't been mentioned with most people teleporting to 2 different locations to get their apes.

Ruins Hellion: Act 8 - The Quay, Act 8 - The Grain Gate
They have a Rallying Cry that applies a 30% Less Damage Taken debuff. People refer to it as Disgustingly overpowered and say it should be meta in hardcore. They also have an innspiring cry for 10% increase damage.

Mob vulnerability (whipping miscreants, merveil retainer, Armour crunchers and necros from cowards trial) is 50% increased damage taken as opposed to 39% from a level 20 gem (this is the same effect as a lvl 30 gem). They say it definitly is worth having in a pure phys/impale skelemancer/zombie build. One person said that the necros don't seem to want to curse but Merveils Retainer almost spazs out with how much she curses everything. The other options seem to cast the same Vulnerability on hit as opposed to the spell.

Seems like Merveil's retainer is the best bet but can only be found in maps that have "Area is inhabited by Sea Witches and their Spawn"

https://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Merveil%27s+Retainer
https://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Armour+Cruncher

Another Powerful Minion mentioned is the Reanimator which casts an enfeeble that is stronger than the lvl 20 gem and also raises zombies. He can be found in the Lunaris Temple lvl 1.
https://poedb.tw/us/mon.php?n=Reanimator

My initial thoughts without testing is that the best set-up is 2 Carnage Chieftains (maybe 1 Carnage 1 Host), 1 Ruins Hellion, and 1 Merveil's Retainer.

The benefits would be Frenzy Charges from Apes, a taunting minion with a 30% less damage debuff, 10% increased damage cry, 50% increased physical damage taken debuff vulnerability (same as lvl 30 gem). I can't see how that doesn't improve what we are getting out of 4 spectres now. Is anyone who is better with Path of building able to try to input the data and see how it looks?

Expanding on that if we add a Chaos Golem in the helmet (replacing culling strike) for the 5% physical reduction (boosted by golem buffs) and a pride gem for up to 40% physical damage reduction in enemies we could be looking at some pretty insane buffs/debuffs. What is everyone's thoughts? Again this is my first season so I don't know all the nuances of the game like everyone who's been doing it for years.

On the topic of spectres, the Merveil's Retainer is the only one that seems interesting from the standpoint of having an auto vuln. You'll be missing out of uptime of frenzy or power charges if you replace a carnage or host chieftain so that's a bit lame.

I'll mess around with them tonight. The taunting warcry spectre seems like a recipe for a constantly dead spectre in my opinion but who knows. I'll slot one as well and run around. That won't be for awhile though until I get home.

The chaos golem... /shrug? It's neat for the damage reduction I guess. This is again getting into the "infinite customization" part of the build lol. There's always things you trade to do any of this.

You trade off power and frenzy uptime for taunt and vuln for example on spectres. You trade off additional Carrion damage for a Chaos Golem. It's all preference. Just try it and see how it feels. There's literally zero harm in trying any of these things out and that's why this build works well as a framework to get started.

I've been following the discussions and suggestions in this thread since the start of the league, so thank you guys for a lot of good ideas that have added depth to the original build.

And as this build has evolved for me from "maybe time to try out summoner, guess this league gear won't be as expensive" to "holy crap this is the best build I've ever played, there are so many things to min-max", maybe I can contribute a few of my own ideas that I have incorporated in addition to the by now well known things like Impale, Drad Banner + Generosity or AG.

As this is my first forum post I have no idea how to link items here, anyone interested can look at my character in my public profile.

- Some people already have mentioned the use of wands with "Trigger a socketed spell when you use a skill", but just to be a little more specific: if you put Desecrate, Spirit Offering (or Flesh Offering if you prefer it) and a curse in it, you will automatically while shield charging or casting Skeletons
-> desecrate and use offering every 1-2 seconds (nice additional layer of defense with the constant energy shield buffer and instant reg)
-> cast your curse of choice
Personally I found it much more reliable than CWDT and have forgone Flesh Offering altogether.

- When using a defensive setup with wand + shield and a curse in the wand or CWDT-setup, it is easy to incorporate Vulnerabilty with a "Curse enemies with Vulnerabilty on hit" ring, as we are already pathing near Whispers of Doom in the tree and can apply it with Shield Charge.

- To expand a little bit on Shield Charge, as we are relatively free in our choice of gloves (aside from life, necessary resistances and a free Prefix for Minion Damage) I can highly recommend a pair with "Socketed Gems have 16% more attack and cast speed" and socketing your Shield Charge + Faster Attacks in here for ultimate zoom zoom.

- As I have ~10700 eHP and personally hate the clunky feel of MoM, I've included Dread Banner, Pride and Skitterbots for a big damage boost. To leave enough mana unreserved for casting, you can either get a "Pride has 15% reduced mana reservation" enchant, path to Sovereignty or use Enlighten linked with at least Pride.

- As I was absolutly socket starved with all the stuff I tried packing into the build, some suggestions how to cut a few things down:
-> Raise Spectre + Blood Magic is enough for them to survive 95% of the content and they are easily resummoned
-> If you are using a helmet with "socketed gems are supported by level x minion life", you can further optimize by putting AG + Zombies + Meat Shield into it (and maybe add Elemental Army Support if you have the place for it)
-> Carrion Golems only need Maim as a Support Gem, and Feeding Frenzy if you have cut that from the 6 - link

Hope some of that wall of text will give someone new ideas, like you guys did for me many times.

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Rebur wrote:

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corranosgor wrote:

Can Someone shortly explain the impale stuff to me?

Is it enough If i only Change the skeleton 6L for impale?
Or do i need the Generosity and Dread Banner stuff?

I would Not Like to Reserve Mana because of MoM and im Not Sure how effektiv the Impale stuff is against the OG Setup because i'm running an awakend melee Splash.

Impale is very good DPS and if a build can fit in in they really need to since it such a big increase. Also as a aside most people drop Feeding Frenzy to use Impale.

Now Dread Banner plus Generosity increase it even more. On my PoB I have Total Impale DPS of 730,951.8 if I drop Dread Banner it drops to 575,332.6. So a pretty big drop.

Now as for Mana reserved I feel it is negligible. My total Mana is 2,319. Dread Banner at Level 20 with 20% Quality reserves 11% of my mana which drops it down to 2,063.

So for 256 mana I get a increase of DPS of 155,619.2 which I think is totally worth it.

The problem comes in with the Pride Aura. I was using it for a little bit but had to drop MoM and the mana nodes to make it work which at my gear point isn't worth. If I had a AG with Kingmaker and a Glorious Vanity of Doryani and at least 5500 Health I would drop MoM for Pride because it's even more Damage on top but that is expensive.

Thanks to you for explaining.

But one Last question, IS IT right that i need to use normal skeleton gem instead of Vaal akeletons If i use this Setup?