ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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Naaa. He pulled out because big business lobbyists paid him and others in his orbit to pull out. Trump will do whatever puts $$$ in his pocket. He's an empty vessel with no allegiance to any people or person. (Except Putin and MbS because of the Kompromat)

I know you're at stage 4 TDS already but big business loves the Paris agreement because it funnels government money into their pockets.

Not sure when this became the Anthropogenic Climate (insert verb here) thread.

I will posit this: Earth's climate changes constantly over time, has done so since long before the advent of ANY life on the planet, and will continue to do so both in the presence of human life, and after, in a cycle of warming and cooling.

Does anyone disagree with that?

Furthermore, the climate tends to change toward only one of those two extremes at a time during a given cycle.

Does anyone disagree with that?

Finally, whatever effect humanity may or may not have on whichever is the current positive climatic trend (warming or cooling) can only be considered to be a modest one, and absolutely negligible on the reverse (that is, the effect on the current, natural tendency toward warming or cooling would be tiny, and unable to reverse it in any meaningful way).

Does anyone propose that humanity's influence is so great that we can turn back the mighty engines of global climate from their natural inclination? Or is whatever effect we may have simply hastening nature's own course, to a minuscule degree?

And which would you prefer: A warm earth, or a cold one? Either way, you won't get much of a say in it. =^[.]^=

What is critical to understand is that it is possible to plead guilty to a crime one did not commit.

For instance, at some point in Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne, presumably working under an alias, is shown in some kind of trouble with law enforcement for the "theft" of Wayne Enterprises property — that is, it is implied he is being charged with the crime of stealing his own property. Furthermore, based on Wayne's motives in that scene, we would expect that he would functionally plead guilty to such a charge, because concealing his identity seems to be a higher priority than avoiding a short jail sentence. By simply failing to volunteer the appropriate words, Bruce could be found guilty and go to jail for the noncrime.

I bring this up because the current popular argument that Trump committed a felony is based entirely on two points:
1. Trump ordered and paid Cohen to do something, and
2. that something is a felony.
Now the "impeach Trump" crowd thinks that point #2 is fully in the bag, because Cohen has already pleaded guilty to a felony (while claiming #1). However, Cohen didn't defend himself — that's not how plea agreements work. The question of whether the behavior for which Cohen pleased guilty to was or was not a crime is still in play.

If it wasn't, I could criminalize anyone I ever did business with, providing I was willing to take the fall. You paid me to work on your computer? Well I just pleased guilty to the crime of working on your computer to nefarious ends, which you ordered and paid me to do. If there ISN'T a defense against that, the system is fucked.

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鬼殺し wrote:

There is no way in the world some of us will ever think we're 'deranged' for seeing Trump the same way we've seen him for decades

When your TDS is so severe your internal Ministry of Truth has unrefed all memory of Trump not being scary to you.

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

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Raycheetah wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Raycheetah wrote:

I'll just wait for all the apologies when it is proven that the Trump-bashing has been BS.

Of course, that'll never happen. All the "Muh Russia" groundhogs will simply vanish with their tails between their legs (plenty of room for a big, bushy tail when there's nothing else in the way) until the next wave of Proggy agit-prop and slander.

Meanwhile, I'll salt my popcorn with the tears of those whose soon-to-be-disappointed expectations have been led by the same lying political-media complex as has been fabricating the anti-Trump BS. =^[.]^=

Here's the offer.

If Trump ends up being given a clean slate by the justice department, the Mueller investigation, the upcoming house investigations, and the state of NY investigations then I will sincerely apologize for being wrong and calling him a criminal and a Russian agent. I will also freely admit to being a dumbshit on this forum.

On the other hand if Trump ends up not getting a clean slate from the justice department, the Mueller investigation, the upcoming house investigations, and the state of NY investigations then you will sincerely apologize for being wrong and trying to protect the criminal and/or Russian agent. You will also freely admit to being a dumbshit on this forum.

Please note that my view is that if you accept this offer then you will be practically admitting to being a blind idiot in this forum because there is no way that man is innocent of all the allegations against him.

"Blind idiot?"

I've never called ANYONE on this thread an idiot, or pretty much anything else as negative as that. You and your cohorts comport yourselves as quite hostile and rude. You might do well to tone down the ad hominem, because it makes you appear angry and irrational. You aren't, are you?

That's quite a list of naturally hostile Leftist agencies you've named. Put your cards on the table, then: What precise Presidency-ending charges do you see being brought directly against President Trump, aside from Mueller's spaghetti-splattering against the kitchen wall? What outcome do you expect to arise from such charges, and within what time frame?

My prediction: All manner of scattershot charges will be brought by both those and other bodies, including the Democrat controlled House of Representatives. None of the moperies they levy against President Trump will amount to anything, and he will not only win the GOP nomination for POTUS in 2020, but the General election, as well, and you will see the House recaptured and the Senate retained.

You have my prediction, and the time frame. Let's have yours. =^[.]^=

Kudos for a very good response!

It wasn't really intended as an insult since it was attached to what I assumed was a huge "IF" that I couldn't imagine that you'd accept. This assumption has been validated by your response saying you thought that improprieties would be found against the President by at least some of those bodies I listed. All goading aside, perhaps we really can agree on something here?

To me, it appears likely that the Mueller investigation will bring charges against members of his family and Trump will be an unindicted co-conspirator in charges. The NY attorney general will also likely bring charges against the Trump organization (really 500 sleazy companies run by the Trumps) and the Trump charity organization (Donald J. Trump Foundation).

The Republican party has been damaged by this President, particularly the support by minorities and women. While I can imagine an unlikely scenario where he wins re-election, I think it more likely that he resigns before serving out his full term. If he does run he will be so damaged, I would guess it highly unlikely that he could win. With the 2020 outcome most likely a clean sweep by Democrats controlling all three, presidency, House, and Senate. Of the three, most likely being holding the House, with winning Presidency and Senate close to equal. Unless pardoned somehow, he will also face charges when leaving office.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I bring this up because the current popular argument that Trump committed a felony is based entirely on two points:
1. Trump ordered and paid Cohen to do something, and
2. that something is a felony.
Now the "impeach Trump" crowd thinks that point #2 is fully in the bag, because Cohen has already pleaded guilty to a felony (while claiming #1). However, Cohen didn't defend himself — that's not how plea agreements work. The question of whether the behavior for which Cohen pleased guilty to was or was not a crime is still in play.

To add to that, even if #2 is fully in the bag, Trump still needs to be prosecuted and convicted for it. And even if that somehow happens (it won't, see Bill Clinton), he pays a small fine and that's it. The TDS crowd basing their entire hopes on this nothingburger is comical. If anyone thinks Trump supporters will abandon him because of some technicality, they're deluded.

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Turtledove wrote:

Kudos for a very good response!

It wasn't really intended as an insult since it was attached to what I assumed was a huge "IF" that I couldn't imagine that you'd accept. This assumption has been validated by your response saying you thought that improprieties would be found against the President by at least some of those bodies I listed. All goading aside, perhaps we really can agree on something here?

To me, it appears likely that the Mueller investigation will bring charges against members of his family and Trump will be an unindicted co-conspirator in charges. The NY attorney general will also likely bring charges against the Trump organization (really 500 sleazy companies run by the Trumps) and the Trump charity organization (Donald J. Trump Foundation).

The Republican party has been damaged by this President, particularly the support by minorities and women. While I can imagine an unlikely scenario where he wins re-election, I think it more likely that he resigns before serving out his full term. If he does run he will be so damaged, I would guess it highly unlikely that he could win. With the 2020 outcome most likely a clean sweep by Democrats controlling all three, presidency, House, and Senate. Of the three, most likely being holding the House, with winning Presidency and Senate close to equal. Unless pardoned somehow, he will also face charges when leaving office.

You'll notice that I don't pay much attention to a majority of those posting here; in your case, I made a deliberate exception in hopes of a productive dialog.

Let me address your second point, first: Donald Trump is no more a Republican than Bernie Sanders is a Democrat. What the GOP has become in recent years is the Right Wing of the Left Wing. President Trump is seen by those who support him as a wrecking ball, not the figurehead of a crumbling institution. The prospect of his resignation is a pipe dream. He lives for this stuff. Not only does he believe in American greatness, he also enjoys getting down in the mud and duking it out. He'll stick for as long as he's able, and his support isn't fading, no matter what some folks may tell you.

As for the charges against Trump, could you kindly outline them for me? Because all I hear are charges against people associated with Trump, and not even anything particularly serious in those cases. There are some rumblings about "campaign finance violations" which might be serious, if they weren't spurious on the face of things. Either evidence of actual, serious wrongdoing needs to be brought forth, or it's all just going to blow over as I predict it will.

Even NPR, not exactly a bastion of Right-Wing propaganda, admits as much:

The Russia Investigations: An Unfinished Case Looks Weaker Than Ever

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/15/676765398/the-russia-investigations-an-unfinished-case-looks-weaker-than-ever

Right out of the gate, the article begins with:

"

Editor's Note: This story has been edited to make it clear that it is analysis and that the allegations of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians remain unproven.

As for any case of candidate Donald J. Trump instructing his lawyer to pay off some bimbos who wanted to rock the boat, can you please tell me wherein lies the felony? Again, even if it could be proven in court (assuming it ever made it that far), private citizen Trump's paying off a nuisance suit or two with his own money is far from "high crimes and misdemeanors."

The fact is, Trump's one, great crime was beating Hillary Clinton, for which the Left has not forgiven him. Thus, we come to a place in US history at which is has become a crime to win a presidential election. ='[.]'=