[3.x - Discontinued for now] Burning Spectres - Torch the Atlas - HC Shaper, Elder, Uber Atziri

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Lacceh wrote:

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lostcoaster wrote:

I guess if totem dies faster, TV will be more actively placing totems

No. Totem duration is halved, while cooldown is untouched. Hence much lower totem uptime.

Exactly. It's untouched. And in case you forgot, the NA+TF version could have 2 totems at once, and it took ~3-4 seconds for them to spawn both of their totems, which is proof enough that the totem's cooldown itself is definitely not 10 seconds (since TF does not touch the cooldowns of your totems in any way)

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wiwigvn wrote:

Huh? I think the 5L ring is not worth it considering that +level on AG is much more important for us. AG link should be in bone helmet for that purpose. Not sure what to use with that 5L. We cannot put curse link into that, or low-level CwDT link either. Perhaps a generic minion link to use with zombie/golem/skelly.

I look at it from the perspective of 'it was pretty much perfect even without AG', and I also never saw rare helms being better than Skullhead; not sure about what would be better for the ring, but a faster attacks + melee splash + minion life + empower don't sound too bad. I don't think such setup would require frequent re-summoning and such AG would die from pretty much the same thing that can kill a fortified AG27 - stuff like ghosted guardians, perhaps.

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Lacceh wrote:

That claim is simply false, especially without AG(double Dyadus, Icetomb). People do not kill bosses in 5 seconds, not in new leagues, maybe in Standard on some totally maxxed out character. Do you kill let's say Phoenix in 5 seconds, with or without AG? If NOT, you will experience serious totem downtime and loss of damage. You are being ridiculously dishonest.

I should've elaborated the 'before going into some sort of intermission phase' phrase a bit. Take your Phoenix example, for example: have you ever seen TV's totems actually reach him with the amount of his moving around the arena (both with his fiery attack and the charge) for more than 5 seconds? Same with my earliest Chimera kills in Turmoil (once again, no AG at all) with lvl 19 gems - sure, such character didn't force him into intermissions in 5 seconds, however, considering his constant horizontal lashes and the AoE attacks, I don't think I ever saw any totem attack him for even 7-8 seconds, let alone 10 in one go.

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Lacceh wrote:

Pure speculation. They have NOT specified that in the patch notes. So perhaps YOU are the one having trouble with reading comprehension?

Uhm... What? I seriously don't see how people manage to see '1 totem for however many TVs you have'. It's quite clearly stated there, and if that was the case, it would've been stated in a very clear way (and most likely in the initial huge nerfs post). The only thing that bothers me is this: "They are less likely to place additional totems while they have at least one totem." - the wording kinda implies that the 'additional totems' situation is possible, yet less likely now. It might hurt (it will hurt, most likely - especially for high-end boss killings). The very fact that it's 'less likely' is proof enough that it's possible, am I wrong?

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pticouic wrote:

2/ "and the duration of their totems has been lowered to 5 seconds (from 10). "
=> But cooldown remain the same so no totem during 5 seconds

Again, if that was the case, how did TF version of these spectres manage to have 2 totems at once, if the cooldown was 10 seconds with the duration of 10 seconds? That shield doesn't touch the CDs of the totems.

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pticouic wrote:

That does not mean that the build is dead, but we nead maybe different spectres and add some damage from different sources (skeletons ? golems ? zombies?)

This is the most sane thought in this thread after the patch notes have hit us, to be perfectly honest. I remember someone describing his build with 6L skele-mages and 4L burning spectres in this thread. It might be a realistic thing to do to actually consider going with only 2 4L spectres TV+WM now and using the chest (and potentially boots) to boost the mages.


So let me reiterate the important points:

- It is clear from the patch notes that it's not '1 totem per x TV spectres' but rather '1 TV = 1 totem'.

- It is also clear from how TF works that the cooldown (which is not touched by the patch notes) has always been less than 5 seconds, not 10 how some people keep insisting here in denial.

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jleonra wrote:

Do you even know what Tukohama's fortress do? It'd lets you place 1 additional totem, so each spectre could place 2 totems instead of one when combined with necro aegis, that's right 2 totems per spectre.

5 spectres equals 10 totems, because 5 x 2 = 10.

What exactly is hard to understand?

Do YOU understand it? It's ironic how you literally explain why the cooldown can't be higher that 5 seconds and finish the post with 'what exactly is hard to understand'.

TF does not ignore the totem CD, you know? If a totem exists for 10 seconds, and a single TV could place 2 totems at once, it kinda implies that the cooldown simply cannot be 10 seconds.

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jleonra wrote:

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Med1umentor wrote:

Ok, then answer one little question for me, please.

Why Tukohama fortress + necro aegis variant build easily build up 10 totems with 5 spectres? If this so called "cooldown" really exist and equal 10 sec, this variant would never work in the first place.

Just simple question - why you people even think that there are such concept as "cooldown" for them?
There are definitely some AI-code that control behaviour (like the one when they won't replace totem when already have it), but definitely not that absurd idea like "cooldown = time of life = 10 sec". If anyone want to say otherwise - should answer question about why 10 totems were even possible.

Do you even know what Tukohama's fortress do? It'd lets you place 1 additional totem, so each spectre could place 2 totems instead of one when combined with necro aegis, that's right 2 totems per spectre.

5 spectres equals 10 totems, because 5 x 2 = 10.

What exactly is hard to understand?

The cooldown was equal to the uptime of the totems, when a totem expired, another would take its place, now it won't happen, once the totem expires, you gotta wait 5 sec before another can be placed, you might be able to bypass the cooldown with tuko's fortress though, since the second totem wouldn't be on a cooldown most likely.

Are you serious right now? If you will continue as it is, i will think of you as retarded...
Read again my post, read again your post, and think about what you wrote wrong...

Nevermind, i will do it for you.

Tukohama fortress made +1 maximum number of totems, it's neither reduce your "cooldown of totem placing", nor it make them cast totem twice in one cast.
So if cooldown for placing is 10 second, and uptime of totems is 10 second... How ever our spectre can cast 2nd totem with tukohama's fortress? If uptime of totem always end before cooldown, then how?

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Lacceh wrote:

Hm? Some skills have cooldown timers in this game, and some mob skills also have them. It's common knowledge.

Typical troll answer. You ignored everything, didn't even read the question. Answered nothing.

Hi guys! I've posted my assessment of the patch notes. Your interpretations and different opinions helped greatly, thanks. To me the part about TVs seems less than promising, but the wording is so ambiguous that I can't say for sure. What I can say is that there is no relevant cooldown on totems as some have suggested.

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

Do YOU understand it? It's ironic how you literally explain why the cooldown can't be higher that 5 seconds and finish the post with 'what exactly is hard to understand'.

TF does not ignore the totem CD, you know? If a totem exists for 10 seconds, and a single TV could place 2 totems at once, it kinda implies that the cooldown simply cannot be 10 seconds.

Yeah, if it even exists.

Our totems don't have any CD, for specters it can be very well be the same.

We actually can't tell, until we look into the code of the actual game.
The fact that they not placing totems right after another can be very well be through AI-correction (there are tons of flags available, position, range between existing totem and spectre, if another totem exist or not, etc... ). We literally can't know that, that's why i find those who proudly claim 10 sec cooldown so hilarious.

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

Take your Phoenix example, for example: have you ever seen TV's totems actually reach him with the amount of his moving around the arena (both with his fiery attack and the charge) for more than 5 seconds?

Oh cool, so moving the goal post now. The totems will be gone after 5 seconds due to duration limit, then go on cooldown, and there will be no totems to reach anything.

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LaplaceNoMa wrote:

I don't think I ever saw any totem attack him for even 7-8 seconds

Lol, so it's 7-8 seconds now, means you are admitting damage loss, since that's the only logical conclusion? Keep moving that goal post.

Also you conveniently didn't quote the part about RF. Patch notes are clear I won't quote it again. They are bringing it in line with other RF mobs such as Burned Miscreation - and their damage output is garbage. Yet you somehow claim nothing has changed. Cool.

Can't be bothered with the rest of the shit, I've said everything already. Just simply warned people about the incoming nerf, and I'm being called names and a troll, etc. OK then.
Seems like people get attached to a build that's clearly broken, and then go into denial mode. Whatever.

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Natt wrote:

Hi guys! I've posted my assessment of the patch notes. Your interpretations and different opinions helped greatly, thanks. To me the part about TVs seems less than promising, but the wording is so ambiguous that I can't say for sure. What I can say is that there is no relevant cooldown on totems as some have suggested.

While I spent the last of my sanity and nerve system stability trying to fight off the fellas who imply a 10-second CD, now I think it's worth noting that I'm almost certain that there is a cooldown, after all. It's very low, and it's only noticeable in the TF build. I think someone had a video of that build showcasing this delay between two totems - I'm pretty sure it was short, but higher that 1.5s. Something among the lines of 3s. It's still irrelevant for a 5s duration, though.

As you asked for opinions in the OP post edit, I'd like to suggest this: we should mainly think of two things:

- If the 3.1 shaper test shows that multiple TVs are a failure, and/or WM's damage is really brought down to the level of 'other unrighteous fire monsters' (BMs) and the 'righteous' was simply a mistake in the notes, I think the best course of action would be switching to 2 spectres and using the other gear slots for skele mages;

- If that's not the case and we can continue going for 3-4 spectres, the Hungry Loop should probably be the main focus. Many things could go there, from additional minions (zombies or skellies) or AG to some new utility.

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Lacceh wrote:

Oh cool, so moving the goal post now. The totems will be gone after 5 seconds due to duration limit, then go on cooldown, and there will be no totems to reach anything.

Multiple people have already explained to you that you have a serious reading comprehension problem and yet you STILL keep going about that '5 seconds downtime'? You have some serious problems, dude.

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Lacceh wrote:

Lol, so it's 7-8 seconds now, means you are admitting damage loss, since that's the only logical conclusion? Keep moving that goal post.

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word 'even' and of the term 'moving the goal post'. If that's as hard for you to understand as the part about totems not having a 10-second cooldown, I rest my case, really.

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Lacceh wrote:

Also you conveniently didn't quote the part about RF. Patch notes are clear I won't quote it again. They are bringing it in line with other RF mobs such as Burned Miscreation - and their damage output is garbage. Yet you somehow claim nothing has changed.

Just as with totem's cooldown, you keep spouting bullcrap about 'clear things stated in the patchnotes' while adding things that aren't mentioned there. I mean, do you want people to reply to every thing you imagine that is in the patch notes when it isn't?

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Lacceh wrote:

Can't be bothered with the rest of the shit, I've said everything already. Just simply warned people about the incoming nerf, and I'm being called names and a troll, etc. OK then.
Seems like people get attached to a build that's clearly broken, and then go into denial mode. Whatever.

Oh, that's such a relief that you've finally said everything. Perhaps you can use the downtime to stop crying about whatever nerfed build made you so salty and actually read the patch notes so you can understand just how stupid you looked here in this thread and reflect on the fact that your fearmongering attempts didn't come to fruition.

@LaplaceNoMa, pretty sure that Lacceh just troll.

His answer to my question only proved it. He don't look like stupid, he look like someone who just spilling bullshit for lulz.

Just ignore him.

But jleonra looked like he was completely serious about his post, so that's scary.

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Med1umentor wrote:

Just ignore him.

Unless he can substantiate and/or source the 10sec cd on TV totems, which he seems to be reluctant to do.

I'm excited that the OP plans to go over the potential viability of the build immediately post patch.