On Balance Feedback and Charge Changes

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Ors_Coraxo wrote:

i think nerfs are great this game has become to easy and too many players are used to that, i like a tough poe. the issue is we have had too much power creep since ascendacy, and ppl freak out about nerfs, stop crying, battle down and get on with it.

nerfs are fine if the game still feels rewarding. ive not come to a ARPG which by the way are known as the "slaughter 1000's of enemies as your a god" to get loot style games.

you nerf to point where people will start skipping content because they take too long to kill while giving us nothing in rewards and youve essentially destroyed the essence of your game.


also these changes are not just nerfs they break a lot of interactions in the game. like new trapper chest/trapper node is now useless for traps as the non trap+skill are considered spell traps.(that node and chest still have issues like fact it doesnt work with sabo or sunblast but thats a different matter)

tulfull a wonderful designed unique is now useless when it was already extremely niche overall and nowhere near the power just a generic spell caster could get.

as for chilled/shock it just feels to a lot that GGG just want to delete ailments completely from the game, chilled and shock are never a thought for trash killing but now with changes to boss life and these changes any fast attacking spell/skill will never even get the minimum effect and those who are big single hits will just not be bothered anyway because they kill it in like 2 hits anyway.





also the recent post by a GGG member on reddit also is not a good sign. shown that Vinktars had been nerfed in the past to 30% shock instead of usual 50% yet the item nor none of the balance team members had been told about this change so what else is going on that isnt being talked about in the dev office.

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Prismatic4 wrote:

F*ck your longterm plan, theses changes are shit, and will always be shit, and will always narrow down possibilities!!

Don't you see, whenever you simplify mechanics, the "pro" players get bored, and the "pro" players are the ones who animate the masses!

In the past 1.5 years you killed so so so many builds, i am so sad, I loved this game :8

Heartbound loop, gone

Wormblaster, gone

CoC, gone (now even worse then 2.6)

Burning Discharge

AoE changes

Support gem choices are more boring then ever, because the calculation is boring, you cannot combine stuff anymore, there is only 1 damage % increase type per mechanic working, its the most dull shit ever. FUCK THE ENTIRE 3.0 CHANGES !!!

Soso much fun and diversity gone !!

Don't you see, whenever you simplify mechanics, the "pro" players get bored, and the "pro" players are the ones who animate the masses!

you forgot shotgun, ele prolif,convert fire/lightning to chaos and now they kill poison
Im totaly agree with you, especially on HardCore there is only 2-3 playable builds, its shit!

power charges = spells
frenzy charges= attacks

yeah that's pretty much right. i see no porblems with this.
i always played RT characters and never used power charges for obvious reasons.

power charges contributed to the power gap between RT and crit big time

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TRIPL3try wrote:

Don't cater to the crybabies, Chris. You should also nerf the way spell casters exploit Fortify with shield charge and whirling blades. Remember how that is supposed to be designed for melee? Every class uses it now. It's stupid.

Absolutely agree! You guys do fantastic job of making that balance feel good and nice. I think we need that changes to make builds vary more!

I won't play test the beta any more now. it is one week before release. sorry, that's just too late. it would dampen the fresh experience of a new league and expansion

changes so far were great (besides the bleed keystone).
flasks and barrage needs more nerf, thou.

just un-brick the uniques like bitterdream or the new chest that are ruined with the charge changes.
you got one week! *gogogo!

I don't have any major issues with the shock and chill changes, I don't think it will even change much for shock and chill applied by hits. They are already basically impossible to apply to bosses with hits and uneeded when it works. It mostly nerfs the "free" and ground effect versions which if fine if you want to do that. I don't think it solves any of the perceived problems of chill and shock but I don't think it necessarily hurts either.

On the charges changes, I have several issues. I do think that giving non crit builds a reason to get power charges is a good idea, power charges are currently more specific than frenzy and endurance charges. However having spell damage as their effect still leaves a large number of builds who will not give two shits about power charges, so it doesn't really expand their reach all that much. It also directly steals the want to get power charges from frenzy charges. So now the builds want power charges for spell damage don't want frenzy charges so all it has done is move the goal of builds from "get frenzy charge" to "get power charge" and hasn't really changed much at all goal wise. In practice it does change execution since passive choices and methods of gaining charges are different, but I feel power charges are easier to get and sustain and power charges are in better spell positions so all it really does is power creeps spells more without giving any tension for wanting an "off" charge. For attacks they just value power charges less, which is fine or even justified to nerf them but this seems like a really round about and bad method to do it.

Also is the idea that frenzy is too common an and required as a general damage buff. This could be entirely by my failing, but I have never considered a casual 3 frenzy charges to be valuable enough for me to go out of my way to get them. The majority of my builds are spell crit builds without frenzy charges, so these changes just end up being a 20-28% more damage buff to my generic go to build. And I honestly do not feel that is justified for generic spell crit builds like mine to just get slapped with an extra 20+% more spell damage for existing. When your goal is to nerf crit, which I agree is needed, I don't think adding a easily accessible more spell damage to spell crit builds is a great idea.

And as a specific example, when I learned that scion raider was getting the frenzy charge on hit (and not kill) I was actually interested in trying it as one choice for a spell scion for frenzy charge generation and onslaught.

Just adding another data point.

I think I'm a rather casual player, 1500h since first open beta.
Been mostly playing simple SSF homebrew builds.
Been playing almost only melee builds with RT on the left side of the tree.
I've often wondered about how to scale my melee builds to the late game, often thought about respeccing to crit to be able to make use of status ailments.
I've mainly played Marauder, but Hierophant is an Ascendancy that always intrigued me, and it already provides power charges. Also have been thinking about Inquisitor, since the class just looks so plain strong overall.
The change to Power Charges kind of feels like a 'Stay in your cot, RT guy!', the incentive to theorycraft about transferring to crit, or making a hybrid build or whatever is just a lot less when power charges hold no interest for my build.
You're closing down that kind of paths with these changes. I don't presume I can judge whether this is for the greater good better than you can, but it sure does feel against the general spirit of the game that has always seemed to be 'Anything is possible, what are you going to make of it'

When exactly are we going to hear why vaal skills are being destroyed?

For a long time patch after patch more things were added especially unique jewels to allow players to play vaal skills as a main skill.

Like discharge those vaal skills were enjoyed by the community, yes there were builds that could push them to what was clearly considered too far but ggg put this stuff in the game so we could play vaal skills as a primary skill.

I would like to know why it has been decided that vaal skills can no longer be a main skill , is there not a place ballance wise where i can play vaal fb , vaal spark without them being too op? At first glance it looks like these skills have just been put into a too hard basket and intentionally crippled by the dev team???

Honestly I know its just a game but I would at this point rather just never play a skill if i think its going to be taken away from me , I really enjoyed several skills that I consider unplayable in 3.0

loved the shit out of discharge , regret playing that because its basically dead now , loved the shit out of vaal skills , rip most of them with no spell echo , howa possibly still viable in 3.0 but we will see , burning vortex rip , all the builds i enjoy is like a long list of dead dreams .

as a side not , in the next 6 months could you please make vortex in some form viable , i paid a lot for that MTX and id like to get atleast another 2 months out of it... But for now i know you will be tied up with xbox and release so fix it for next league after this one cheers no rush on that one

I like the changes u guys made and u have my full support, i just want to say that the state of traps is really weak compared to self-casted skills and u are taking another thing from it (frenzy charges), i believe u would make compensation with power charges and so on.

The thing with traps is that they are barely viable without having cruel saboteur ascendancy or Sunblast belt, traps have comparable damage to selfcast spells but they have cooldowns and triggering traps on single target without previously mentioned way is just pain.

I love trappers but this exact reason of single target triggering is why i never play trappers anymore.

With regards
Xenderis

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Zynamo wrote:

I have 100% faith in you guys.

Edit: As long as you don't nerf my favourite build : Hideout Warrior

lmao