Damage Over Time Changes - Part 2

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The "Elemental Damage with Weapons" stats that were found on the passive tree, items, and the Weapon Elemental Damage support have now been replaced with "Elemental Damage with Attack Skills".

Does that mean that the default attack with a weapon that has elemental damage on it doesn't get buffed anymore by those passives?

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Rory wrote:

If you have any questions about how a mechanic or skill will now work, please post it below.

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Has Herald of Ash been changed because of this system?
Herald of Ash has been reworked. Rather than applying Ignite to enemies, it applies its own unique burning effect. There is a specific property which is displayed on the skill restricting which modifiers can apply to that burning effect, to prevent any double-dipping. Since this is a new kind of burning effect, it will stack with existing forms of burning, including Ignite.

One of the answers raised a new question: Will Elemental Proliferation still work with HoA?

Hey,

Anothing minion related question:

Will there be any implemented mods to give minions chance to bleed/poison/ignite and/or ways to scale their ailment applications via the skilltree and/or jewels and not just via gems since a player can get these type of enhancements rather easily via both gear pieces as well as the skilltree which minions does not inherit due to being seperate enteties?

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SuperMotte wrote:

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The "Elemental Damage with Weapons" stats that were found on the passive tree, items, and the Weapon Elemental Damage support have now been replaced with "Elemental Damage with Attack Skills".

Does that mean that the default attack with a weapon that has elemental damage on it doesn't get buffed anymore by those passives?

It should still get buffed. The elemental damage on a weapon is transferred to melee skills used thus will be scaled by any of the following:

increased:

damage, attack damage, melee damage, elemental damage, elemental attack damage, aoe damage (for an aoe attack), projectile damage (for a projectile attack), etc.

Essentially:

Weapons is just a sub category of attacks. It now includes unarmed as well, and apparently the burn damage created by an attack, but that isn't inline with their previous statement that "increased attack damage" doesn't scale bleed/poison/ignite anymore.

I noticed a slight(?) discrepancy in the new Weapon Elemental Damage.

First you write:

"The "Elemental Damage with Weapons" stats that were found on the passive tree, items, and the Weapon Elemental Damage support have now been replaced with "Elemental Damage with Attack Skills"."

So the WED support would have "Elemental Damage with Attack Skills".

But then you write "It has been changed to More Elemental Damage with Attacks, and will be renamed appropriately."

Notice it says "with Attacks" and not "with Attack Skills".



Furthermore you say this type of damage will affect secondary damage from attacks including Infernal Blow, but what about EA? That's secondary damage with an attack skill.

So will the WED-support also work with secondary even though it doesn't say "with Attack Skills"?
Is the wording inconsistent because "More Elemental Damage with Attack Skills" just would be a little too long?

Ok so I do have a question here. Considering bleed via melee attack and Area Damage on jewel slots. I don't know if I understood this correctly, do this AD on jewel will be also multiplied by bleed from melee hit in area where hit/bleed was caused? So like Earthquake with Disfavor, it would/wouldn't work that way in whole area of skill effect? Cuz honestly, I just don't understand that o.O

Pls for clarification in advance and thanks for great work!

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Hagitsu wrote:

Ok so I do have a question here. Considering bleed via melee attack and Area Damage on jewel slots. I don't know if I understood this correctly, do this AD on jewel will be also multiplied by bleed from melee hit in area where hit/bleed was caused? So like Earthquake with Disfavor, it would/wouldn't work that way in whole area of skill effect? Cuz honestly, I just don't understand that o.O

Pls for clarification in advance and thanks for great work!

Which jewels specifically?


Only increasing base physical or damage will scale the bleed (adds X physical damage to attacks, covert X other damage to x physical). Increased damage, increased physical damage, and increased bleed damage are the only modifiers which will scale bleed damage.

The changes are a double nerf because of this. Increased attack, AOE, projectile, melee, and weapon damage not only don't double dip anymore, but don't scale the bleed at all now.

I guess in some areas you can go both Based Damage and DOT. For example, if the skill gem has something like "Increase in 'Based' damage also apply to 'DOT'." But they would have to reduce the skill gem's based damage significantly to balance out the damage. If they don't then there will be an unbalance in skill gems and people would only be playing those skill gems to get the double damage boost.

But with all said and done, the end result of this change would be that you would either be focusing on increasing your Base Damage or your DOT. There is really no point in having both when you can't double dip and efficiently increase both Base Damage and DOT.

Another thing is whether or not poison will continue to stack. If poison does not stack then it's GG for poison build. If it does stack then it'll be more of a buff than it would be a Nerf. With this change, you won't need to rely on insanely high base damage to do good DOT. You will only need to stack up DOT very fast and increase DOT through DOT multiplier. A Blade Vortex Build will do just the job.

Also, let's take this into consideration. If DOT is not affected by the increase of Base Damage Multiplier then it will not be affected by the decrease of Base Damage Multiplier either. In other words, you can link LMP & GMP on a skill gem and it wouldn't decrease the DOT. That is OP!

This leads me to my final question. Will they be adding a life leech on DOT? Cause the greatest weakness of DOT is that it can't leech life. Most build rely on the base damage to leech life. Without life leech, I think most people would go for a Based Damage build unless they're a totem build.

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SmileAndNod wrote:

I guess in some areas you can go both Based Damage and DOT. For example, if the skill gem has something like "Increase in 'Based' damage also apply to 'DOT'." But they would have to reduce the skill gem's based damage significantly to balance out the damage. If they don't then there will be an unbalance in skill gems and people would only be playing those skill gems to get the double damage boost.

But with all said and done, the end result of this change would be that you would either be focusing on increasing your Base Damage or your DOT. There is really no point in having both when you can't double dip and efficiently increase both Base Damage and DOT.

Another thing is whether or not poison will continue to stack. If poison does not stack then it's GG for poison build. If it does stack then it'll be more of a buff than it would be a Nerf. With this change, you won't need to rely on insanely high base damage to do good DOT. You will only need to stack up DOT very fast and increase DOT through DOT multiplier. A Blade Vortex Build will do just the job.

Also, let's take this into consideration. If DOT is not affected by the increase of Base Damage Multiplier then it will not be affected by the decrease of Base Damage Multiplier either. In other words, you can link LMP & GMP on a skill gem and it wouldn't decrease the DOT. That is OP!

This leads me to my final question. Will they be adding a life leech on DOT? Cause the greatest weakness of DOT is that it can't leech life. Most build rely on the base damage to leech life. Without life leech, I think most people would go for a Based Damage build unless they're a totem build.

You might be misunderstanding the concept of 'double dip'. In poison you literally had increases in damage apply again to damage it already scaled.

Say you have 50% increased area damage. Currently in poison you have:

Base damage X *(1+ .50 increased area damage)= hit damage Poison = 0.08* hit damage (which is already scaled by the increased area damage) X (1+ .50 increased area damage)

So poison damage = 0.08*[Base *1.5]* 1.5 <-- the area damage increase is in that formula twice, multiplying itself.

In the new system, if an increase in damage scales both your hit, and the poison there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as it isn't a double dip, since poison isn't scaled off the hit damage, only the attack base damage.

It would have been better to keep the old system and not scale bleed/poison/ignite a second time except by increases specifically for bleed/poison/ignite (or burning).


That being said, I wouldn't say that ignoring the down side of GMP as being OP. A finished build will have say 400% increased damage from all sources. So currently poison would be: 0.08*[base damage X 5.00] * 5.00 which is OP.

However under the new system (assuming the same build with 400% in bonuses to attack skill damage) poison is 0.08 X base damage X 1.00. None of the 400% applies which is faaaarrr from worth the benefit of not having the less modifier from GMP.

Put another way: Increases for your attack damage or poison damage don't apply to the other damage source. This effectively makes every increase to damage on the passive tree half value. Double dipping made them double value, or more correctly: added again as a MORE damage multiplier for the poison. Instead, the passive nodes should be at face value and this would be done by having poison work as it did, just without scaling the poison damage a second time.

Doubt this will be balanced