[3.9?] Sidefx Frost Blades - Hyped for Support +

"

KouboMog wrote:

never used PoB so i really don't know how to. Right now i'm at 200-300K (without fask - with flask) but i don't have my 6L yet. (witch is Cold pen anyway)
My gems are Lv19Q20 (most of them) and i have some stuff that need to be changed (one ring maybe, my amulette for sure). I'm lvl 92, next level is the first Jew (so a bit more dps/life if i can put my hand on something nice and "not too expensive")

I think you can look my char/passive tree. If you have the time. I'm really not sure about what to do. I'm farming T11-14 without too much issue. But i can die quite easily and it's painfull (dunno how many time i died in this lvl 92 but it's too much :x )

Well, using PoB isn't that hard. Just install it and import your character into it. Then fill out the config tab to make results comparable with others. Like checking your Frenzy and Power Charges or defining whether or not the target is a boss.

I've imported your character to see if there is anything I can do. Your gear looks much better than mine given that you have >700 more hp than I have. But let's see what we can do about your output:

Without any changes and my configuration your dps vs the Shaper is 341k. First thing I would do is to ditch the second life flask for a Diamond flask. That alone gets you to 417k - only during its uptime obviously. Replacing your Ice Bite with a same level Hypothermia gets that to 460k. More about gems below.

"

Siatorix wrote:

@Solmyr77

I see i see :P i also run with 4blue int boots for movement speed, and its pretty nice. Would use vectors if it wasnt so hard to roll 4 blue on them, because extra frenzies is always very noice. I saw some good player (Kajean i think) use CWDT with vaal haste, is that a viable option for better dps? Also is a 6L rare better than a 5L belly? I found that ruthless didnt do as much dmg as added cold dmg/ice bite for example, but might just be because my gem is so low lvl and quality. What do you think is the best 6L setup for frost blades, and what would you drop in a 5L?

If you want 4 blue sockets on an armor/evasion item you can use the Vorici trick. You start with 2 sockets, apply the "at least 2 blue" craft, then you craft "3 sockets" for some Jeweler's. If the third socket is not blue, you apply "2 sockets", removing the third one and keeping the 2 blue sockets and craft "3 sockets" again. Repeat until 3 blue and then the same procedure alternating 3 and 4 sockets.
Vaal skills can't be triggered by CWDT. It's a nice buff if you can fit it in but keep in mind that you need souls to use it.
A 6L rare chest will obviously improve your damage by a lot, but I'm not sure if it's worth giving up several hundred hp. I went the 6L route last league with my archer and this time around I'm using a 5L Belly. Can't really tell what I prefer, probably the damage route because I've always been dps oriented.

So about gem links:
I've asked myself that question for a while now because there's no reasoning in the guide and other guides use other gems. I also hate giving vague or false information so I clicked around a bit in PoB. Note that the pictures are based on my gear.

1.picture: all flasks active, no support gems active:

Well this only shows that WED is the best gem in the game.

2.picture: all flasks active, 4L pre-selected (WED, Melee phys and Multistrike)

This is the most relevant imo. I have pre-selected WED for obvious reasons. It enhances both the melee and the projectile part of the gem and does the former better than every other gem. While Multistrike isn't at the top for melee dps, I chose it for QoL and clearspeed reasons. Feel free to disagree about this one. Melee physical because it's the next best gem without a drawback.
Conclusion: For big bosses, Elemental Focus is a clear winner for the 5th link. There is the drawback of removing ailments so you don't want to use it for mapping, but rather for Shaper/Guardians. It's +49.8% dps is unrivaled. Ruthless comes second at +39.1% followed by Hypothermia at +39.0%.
For the 6th link vs bosses you can't pick Hypothermia because it can't work with Elemental Focus, so Ruthless it should be.
For mapping and low bosses you pick Increased Critical Damage instead of Elemental Focus.

3. picture: no flasks active, no support gems active:

WED still reigns supreme. Gems that add flat damage (Ice Bite and Added Cold) rank higher because the base damage output is lower. That's natural because when you deal 1 damage, a 40% more multiplier only adds .40 damage whereas +5 damage deals so much more.
Picture not really relevant imo, because nobody plays below a 4L.

4.picture: no flasks active, 4L pre-selected (WED, Melee phys and Multistrike)

At my gear level at least, the multipliers already beat the flat damage gems even without flasks active.

Conclusions:
Ice Bite and Added Cold damage are good gems to use during leveling but get overtaken by multipliers in the endgame.
Hypothermia is great in theory because -unlike Ruthless- it also buffs the projectile damage. In practice you'd have to switch it for another gem when you swap in Elemental Focus. That's not only inconvinient but also a severe damage loss because the next best green gem (Ice Bite) gives way less damage than Ruthless.
Cold pen sucks and that's no surprise imo. While it's technically a multiplier, it has a low factor with diminishing returns. Napkin math:


So all these green gems are quite situational. I would go with these setups:
5L: WED, Multistrike, Melee Phys, Elemental Focus/Inc Crit Damage
6L: add Ruthless

edit: Just in case anyone is wondering. For the time being I've chosen Hypothermia over Ruthless for clearspeed reasons. Will have to recolor if and when I get to do Shaper/Guardians.. ;)

Another question, why ppl alot of you wear the abysus helm...? increased the melee dmg no the elemental one and >40% of increased physical dmg taken..., the ursine pelt isnt better?

"

Solmyr77 wrote:

"

KouboMog wrote:

never used PoB so i really don't know how to. Right now i'm at 200-300K (without fask - with flask) but i don't have my 6L yet. (witch is Cold pen anyway)
My gems are Lv19Q20 (most of them) and i have some stuff that need to be changed (one ring maybe, my amulette for sure). I'm lvl 92, next level is the first Jew (so a bit more dps/life if i can put my hand on something nice and "not too expensive")

I think you can look my char/passive tree. If you have the time. I'm really not sure about what to do. I'm farming T11-14 without too much issue. But i can die quite easily and it's painfull (dunno how many time i died in this lvl 92 but it's too much :x )

Well, using PoB isn't that hard. Just install it and import your character into it. Then fill out the config tab to make results comparable with others. Like checking your Frenzy and Power Charges or defining whether or not the target is a boss.

I've imported your character to see if there is anything I can do. Your gear looks much better than mine given that you have >700 more hp than I have. But let's see what we can do about your output:

Without any changes and my configuration your dps vs the Shaper is 341k. First thing I would do is to ditch the second life flask for a Diamond flask. That alone gets you to 417k - only during its uptime obviously. Replacing your Ice Bite with a same level Hypothermia gets that to 460k. More about gems below.

"

Siatorix wrote:

@Solmyr77

I see i see :P i also run with 4blue int boots for movement speed, and its pretty nice. Would use vectors if it wasnt so hard to roll 4 blue on them, because extra frenzies is always very noice. I saw some good player (Kajean i think) use CWDT with vaal haste, is that a viable option for better dps? Also is a 6L rare better than a 5L belly? I found that ruthless didnt do as much dmg as added cold dmg/ice bite for example, but might just be because my gem is so low lvl and quality. What do you think is the best 6L setup for frost blades, and what would you drop in a 5L?

If you want 4 blue sockets on an armor/evasion item you can use the Vorici trick. You start with 2 sockets, apply the "at least 2 blue" craft, then you craft "3 sockets" for some Jeweler's. If the third socket is not blue, you apply "2 sockets", removing the third one and keeping the 2 blue sockets and craft "3 sockets" again. Repeat until 3 blue and then the same procedure alternating 3 and 4 sockets.
Vaal skills can't be triggered by CWDT. It's a nice buff if you can fit it in but keep in mind that you need souls to use it.
A 6L rare chest will obviously improve your damage by a lot, but I'm not sure if it's worth giving up several hundred hp. I went the 6L route last league with my archer and this time around I'm using a 5L Belly. Can't really tell what I prefer, probably the damage route because I've always been dps oriented.

So about gem links:
I've asked myself that question for a while now because there's no reasoning in the guide and other guides use other gems. I also hate giving vague or false information so I clicked around a bit in PoB. Note that the pictures are based on my gear.

1.picture: all flasks active, no support gems active:

Spoiler

Well this only shows that WED is the best gem in the game.

2.picture: all flasks active, 4L pre-selected (WED, Melee phys and Multistrike)

Spoiler

This is the most relevant imo. I have pre-selected WED for obvious reasons. It enhances both the melee and the projectile part of the gem and does the former better than every other gem. While Multistrike isn't at the top for melee dps, I chose it for QoL and clearspeed reasons. Feel free to disagree about this one. Melee physical because it's the next best gem without a drawback.
Conclusion: For big bosses, Elemental Focus is a clear winner for the 5th link. There is the drawback of removing ailments so you don't want to use it for mapping, but rather for Shaper/Guardians. It's +49.8% dps is unrivaled. Ruthless comes second at +39.1% followed by Hypothermia at +39.0%.
For the 6th link vs bosses you can't pick Hypothermia because it can't work with Elemental Focus, so Ruthless it should be.
For mapping and low bosses you pick Increased Critical Damage instead of Elemental Focus.

3. picture: no flasks active, no support gems active:

Spoiler

WED still reigns supreme. Gems that add flat damage (Ice Bite and Added Cold) rank higher because the base damage output is lower. That's natural because when you deal 1 damage, a 40% more multiplier only adds .40 damage whereas +5 damage deals so much more.
Picture not really relevant imo, because nobody plays below a 4L.

4.picture: no flasks active, 4L pre-selected (WED, Melee phys and Multistrike)

Spoiler

At my gear level at least, the multipliers already beat the flat damage gems even without flasks active.

Conclusions:
Ice Bite and Added Cold damage are good gems to use during leveling but get overtaken by multipliers in the endgame.
Hypothermia is great in theory because -unlike Ruthless- it also buffs the projectile damage. In practice you'd have to switch it for another gem when you swap in Elemental Focus. That's not only inconvinient but also a severe damage loss because the next best green gem (Ice Bite) gives way less damage than Ruthless.
Cold pen sucks and that's no surprise imo. While it's technically a multiplier, it has a low factor with diminishing returns. Napkin math:

Spoiler

If you have 20% cold pen against a target with 40% resist, that resist becomes 20% for damage calculations. So instead of 60 damage you would deal 80, which means a 33% multiplier. When the mob has 0% resist before pen, it becomes -20% and 100 damage turn into 120, that's already only a 20% multiplier (which is = the numeric value of the penetration). Worst case scenario, the monster already has negative resists, which it has because we have some penetration on the tree and use Frostbite and/or Frost Bomb. Then the actual multiplier has a smaller impact than the % of the penetration.

So all these green gems are quite situational. I would go with these setups:
5L: WED, Multistrike, Melee Phys, Elemental Focus/Inc Crit Damage
6L: add Ruthless

Wow, that was one in depth answer :) again, thanks a bunch! No further questions ;)

Hello,
Wanted to ask if you have tried Starkonyas instead of Abyssus. Doesnt Abyssus make you just too squishy?

What is suggested pantheon combo for this build?

I'm using 2sec stun and reflect pantheons.

"

saadpanda wrote:

Hello,
Wanted to ask if you have tried Starkonyas instead of Abyssus. Doesnt Abyssus make you just too squishy?

You absolutely can, I just killed shaper on a Starkonja with this build.
The only encounters that I would prefer an Abyssus is Shaper (even though I just did it without it), and uber Atziri, fights were you have to pretty much dodge everything anyways.
For everything else a Starkonja is preffered imo, none-boss mobs melt all the way up to T16 anyways if you have appropriate gear in the other slots.

"

Centurion90 wrote:

"

saadpanda wrote:

Hello,
Wanted to ask if you have tried Starkonyas instead of Abyssus. Doesnt Abyssus make you just too squishy?

You absolutely can, I just killed shaper on a Starkonja with this build.
The only encounters that I would prefer an Abyssus is Shaper (even though I just did it without it), and uber Atziri, fights were you have to pretty much dodge everything anyways.
For everything else a Starkonja is preffered imo, none-boss mobs melt all the way up to T16 anyways if you have appropriate gear in the other slots.

Then the best helm is the abyssus?

I'm not gonna lie, spent the weekend leveling this build into maps. And between running shaped strands and shores it makes me want to pull my hair out at the end of the day. The word "glass cannon" couldn't be stated anymore clearly. This build with the games awesome RNG will wreck your will to play at times.

Super fun clear speed for maps, but that's about it. Roll any crit mods/added damage/curses on maps will just make this build feel like a tooth pick. For the amount of damage this build does, it sucks having to re-roll SO many map mods. This I can do shaper statements seem pretty far fetched.. atleast unless you are corpse jumping and not giving a sh*t about your exp bar moving the opposite way.

I also feel like anything under 6k is just to little life for again as stated above, the amount of RNG spike damage this game can do to you. That and evasion is to big of a gamble. Fun build leveling.. absolute frustrating end game.

Looking at path of building I went ahead and dropped some random nodes that don't affect damage much and instead used those saved nodes for jewels. Although it won't be effective until level 90 or so, you can drop some damage nodes in exchange for jewels with 7% life and crit multi and have just about the same damage amount while also breaking into the 6k life range with top end gear.

I feel as though people are trying to do as much damage as possible and forgoing life on the tree without actually having the needed gear to do so. Take a look at the life jewels you can afford with life and crit multi, take a look at the damage and life differences on path of building. If you can drop a small damage cluster but make up for it from crit multi and life on jewels you can certainly do it. The build will still get 2 million dps taking off the guide writers overpowered rings and ammy.

Get a top end life and strength leather belt, remove nodes and replace with jewels using path of building until you get numbers you are comfortable with. The build will still clear really fast on a budget but don't expect survivability without changes or dodging skills.

People are clearing guardians easily with half the gear OP has and rare helms.