Content Update 2.6.0 Balance Changes

It's not mentionned but i hope blade vortex is fixed too , that "bug abuse" isn't fair.
"
WizBlizz1994 wrote:
You're very welcome, glad I could help! Problem with that is that there is nothing good in this manifesto once you go through all of it. It's easy to take the "good things" for granted when none of it really affects you. Let me break it down for you, in my own eyes.

-Physical to cold for rangers
"Assists 1-2 builds, whatever"
-Elemental ranger
"Buff ranger nerf the rest, thanks GGG"
-Thick skin
"still would rather CI"
-Claw,Staff,Sword
"Melee still sucks"
-Vitality/Spirit void
"Depending on the changes, this is a nerf"
-Sword crit cluster
"Buff ranger, nerf duelist"
-Avatar of the hunt
"Life still sucks, rather CI"
-Leech for shadow
"Only semi-decent thing here, buffs ES Ghost Reaver (not good)"
-Lightning Cluster
"Who actually needs this? really?"
-Master of Force
"A must-have cluster now for phys builds"
-Ash,Frost and Storm
"A must-have cluster now for ele builds"
-Pathing, positioning etc
"As vague as my opinion, whatever"
-Coversions
"More nerfs, more buffs to shit skills"
-Item rebalance
"You can't multiply it's value if it's worth nothing" *insert meme here*
-One-handed damage
"It sucked before, prolly still sucks now"
-Daggers
"more nerfs, thanks GGG"
-Claw shit
"blah blah blah"
-More claw shit
"More blah blah blah"
-Thrusting swords
"What's a thrusting sword?"
-Maces
"What is stun threshold?"
-Staves
"Really only other decent thing here"
-Accuracy
"Now melee builds can die swinging AND hitting!"
-Area of effect
"Just throw my characters in the trash GGG, is that what you want!? Sickos!"
-Ice crash/Sunder
"What is Ice crash? What is sunder?"
-Vaal Haste/Discipline
"Never used any of them, didn't look interesting to me"
-Threshold Jewels
"Yeah yeah whatever sure"

There you go! MY view and opinion of most of the manifesto. Take it with a grain of salt - it seems to be what the hip kids do these days.
EDIT: You know you're as pathetic as your jokes when you read through and laugh at your own sad ingenuity/creativity. RIP


Thanks for being even dumber. It's like I'm speaking to a 5-year old. But then again, that's what confirmation bias does, I guess. You're looking at one set of patch notes, while I was talking across patch notes. If you want to actually test my claim, go look up the last, say, 5 major patches (so ending in 0 and with no letter in the code, in case you don't know what a major patch is) and read the comments. Depending on the nature of the patch - or the nature of the specific change in cases where people highlight a certain part they care about - you'll find that at least around 70% (yes, this is an estimate based on experience so don't bother accusing me of pulling numbers out of my ass) of the respondents will be complaining while only around 30% or less (most likely less, since there'll be a chunk of neutral responses too) will be praising/thanking GGG for the changes. You won't bother, of course, but hey, at least this makes for a good exercise of my patience (being able to handle 5-year olds is a useful skill, after all).

P.S.: Also, you've happily assumed that none of this affects me. Well, I suppose if it makes you happy...
Last edited by Exile009 on Feb 23, 2017, 1:41:23 AM
Flasks need to be rebalanced too, life flasks first. My opinion is that leech is bad mechanic, but only instant leech can overcome huge damage spikes. How many times you'll drink instant life flask to full up? with life flasks nodes and being a pathfinder - 2.5k hp/use, and 1 hp flask can be pressed 5 times, not 3 times with much less amount for common life builds. Also leech is no brain mechanic at all, you take it - it works, you need only 1 life flask in the end, which instant heal helps only in rare occasions when high es build will work as good. Second problem - very strong utility flasks and that es builds can utilize extra one, rumi was nerfed - good, problem still remains. Why es builds strong? Third problem - cheap defense (maybe only shield block is hard to get). Basalt + armor flask + flasks nodes will give you 75% phys mitigate in stat window (83% i got when played pathfinder with eva+es gear), which will work in 99% situations, only some bosses with many damage afixes will be strong enough to one-shot you or be fatty enough to last longer than 16 seconds of your deffence flasks. That worked as good for Blade flurry build with abyssus, just for curse you use enfeeble and you can facetank almost anything. Something is not right. Yup, it's not a faceroll gameplay when you use flasks, but in the end you have huge ehp in es-build and some strict defense to forget about armor/evasion stats on gear. Also cheap and very good defence mechanics is enfeeble and blind, while enfeeble works worse on bosses, blind don't have any restrictions. Cheap dps from shock - or you use lightning trap or vinktar flask, 50% more damage just from shock? i was literally shocked when known that lightning trap has 3 charges, something is not right people. I think you must have a chance to shock yourself when attacking shocked target or make multiplier lower. More damage from lion's roar flask (time restricted), more damage from conc effect gem (it works fine, not cheap damage), more damage from shock, more spell damage from rf (not cheap damage), warchief totem more damage (totem is strong itself, why it gives you buff i don't understand).

I think strong willed people, who use heavy strike, want some attention again. Heavy strike must torn targets appart. Your heavy strike dared to crit on shaper? his right arm will fall off, blood and meat flying around all of the place because your strike were really heavy. Also game still don't have any melee skill with bleed effect, maybe it's time. Heavy strike must be strongest solo target skill, bosses will suffer from undergrave injuries because you suffer from real melee range. Mob farm or boss farm, melee/ranged, elemental/physical, spell/attack variety of builds come from style you want to play, making versatile and strong skills for all situations is bad for skill balance, but good for fun - you always know that any content can be done even in bad gear, making ranged skills (even if they are use melee mechanic) best is bad for melee/range balance (although ranged skills will always be more versatile).

I really think that game needs mechanic like point blank to work for all of the skills, will it be cleave or split arrow, also if you use high range skill in boss fights with heavy running, melee range skills won't look so worse like now, though it'll need balancing too and that's not an easy task. And i think that gear class (es, eva, ar) must increase base stun avoidance and stun recovery, pure armor gear will have highest one avoidence and no recovery bonus and es gear highest recovery and no avoidence bonus.
"
Rory wrote:

Blade Flurry has had its damage reduced.
Vaal Haste now grants slightly lower values of attack, cast, and move speed.
Vaal Discipline no longer grants any bonus energy shield.[/list]


YES!

P.S. Dont forget to nerf instant leech and movement skills. Long overdue.
177
Last edited by toyotatundra on Feb 23, 2017, 2:13:43 AM
If I can't talk up fun builds (with you tube video content support) to friends prior to league start, it's much harder to get them involved in the league - and a week into the league, they don't want to start as they feel they are already way behind. (None of them can design builds and I will never convince anyone to play through cruel and merc with something that may not work for mapping.)

The "good builds for this league" video content isn't going to be created (for the most part) prior to the start of Legacy league because the streamers and content producers (and the community) do not have the detailed patch notes in time to create that content. As a result, my league experience will be greatly diminished and the number of friends I will be able to play with will also be greatly diminished. This makes me sad.

In the future, I would appreciate it if the GGG team could provide the detailed patch notes two weeks before the league starts so that the talented content producers could create the video content that enables me to hype up the league for my friends.


Been meaning to do a wild strike build. seems like as good a time as any
"
Clig wrote:
Flasks need to be rebalanced too, life flasks first. My opinion is that leech is bad mechanic, but only instant leech can overcome huge damage spikes. How many times you'll drink instant life flask to full up? with life flasks nodes and being a pathfinder - 2.5k hp/use, and 1 hp flask can be pressed 5 times, not 3 times with much less amount for common life builds. Also leech is no brain mechanic at all, you take it - it works, you need only 1 life flask in the end, which instant heal helps only in rare occasions when high es build will work as good. Second problem - very strong utility flasks and that es builds can utilize extra one, rumi was nerfed - good, problem still remains. Why es builds strong? Third problem - cheap defense (maybe only shield block is hard to get). Basalt + armor flask + flasks nodes will give you 75% phys mitigate in stat window (83% i got when played pathfinder with eva+es gear), which will work in 99% situations, only some bosses with many damage afixes will be strong enough to one-shot you or be fatty enough to last longer than 16 seconds of your deffence flasks. That worked as good for Blade flurry build with abyssus, just for curse you use enfeeble and you can facetank almost anything. Something is not right. Yup, it's not a faceroll gameplay when you use flasks, but in the end you have huge ehp in es-build and some strict defense to forget about armor/evasion stats on gear. Also cheap and very good defence mechanics is enfeeble and blind, while enfeeble works worse on bosses, blind don't have any restrictions. Cheap dps from shock - or you use lightning trap or vinktar flask, 50% more damage just from shock? i was literally shocked when known that lightning trap has 3 charges, something is not right people. I think you must have a chance to shock yourself when attacking shocked target or make multiplier lower. More damage from lion's roar flask (time restricted), more damage from conc effect gem (it works fine, not cheap damage), more damage from shock, more spell damage from rf (not cheap damage), warchief totem more damage (totem is strong itself, why it gives you buff i don't understand).

I think strong willed people, who use heavy strike, want some attention again. Heavy strike must torn targets appart. Your heavy strike dared to crit on shaper? his right arm will fall off, blood and meat flying around all of the place because your strike were really heavy. Also game still don't have any melee skill with bleed effect, maybe it's time. Heavy strike must be strongest solo target skill, bosses will suffer from undergrave injuries because you suffer from real melee range. Mob farm or boss farm, melee/ranged, elemental/physical, spell/attack variety of builds come from style you want to play, making versatile and strong skills for all situations is bad for skill balance, but good for fun - you always know that any content can be done even in bad gear, making ranged skills (even if they are use melee mechanic) best is bad for melee/range balance (although ranged skills will always be more versatile).

I really think that game needs mechanic like point blank to work for all of the skills, will it be cleave or split arrow, also if you use high range skill in boss fights with heavy running, melee range skills won't look so worse like now, though it'll need balancing too and that's not an easy task. And i think that gear class (es, eva, ar) must increase base stun avoidance and stun recovery, pure armor gear will have highest one avoidence and no recovery bonus and es gear highest recovery and no avoidence bonus.


tl;dr
"Let your smile change the world, but don't let the world change your smile." -unknown
"The Emperor beckons and the world attends." -Izaro
"Shine boldly so that all may find you when the night falls." -Izaro
i can't wait to see the new tree
"
Clig wrote:
Flasks need to be rebalanced too, life flasks first. My opinion is that leech is bad mechanic, but only instant leech can overcome huge damage spikes. How many times you'll drink instant life flask to full up? with life flasks nodes and being a pathfinder - 2.5k hp/use, and 1 hp flask can be pressed 5 times, not 3 times with much less amount for common life builds. Also leech is no brain mechanic at all, you take it - it works, you need only 1 life flask in the end, which instant heal helps only in rare occasions when high es build will work as good. Second problem - very strong utility flasks and that es builds can utilize extra one, rumi was nerfed - good, problem still remains. Why es builds strong? Third problem - cheap defense (maybe only shield block is hard to get). Basalt + armor flask + flasks nodes will give you 75% phys mitigate in stat window (83% i got when played pathfinder with eva+es gear), which will work in 99% situations, only some bosses with many damage afixes will be strong enough to one-shot you or be fatty enough to last longer than 16 seconds of your deffence flasks. That worked as good for Blade flurry build with abyssus, just for curse you use enfeeble and you can facetank almost anything. Something is not right. Yup, it's not a faceroll gameplay when you use flasks, but in the end you have huge ehp in es-build and some strict defense to forget about armor/evasion stats on gear. Also cheap and very good defence mechanics is enfeeble and blind, while enfeeble works worse on bosses, blind don't have any restrictions. Cheap dps from shock - or you use lightning trap or vinktar flask, 50% more damage just from shock? i was literally shocked when known that lightning trap has 3 charges, something is not right people. I think you must have a chance to shock yourself when attacking shocked target or make multiplier lower. More damage from lion's roar flask (time restricted), more damage from conc effect gem (it works fine, not cheap damage), more damage from shock, more spell damage from rf (not cheap damage), warchief totem more damage (totem is strong itself, why it gives you buff i don't understand).

I think strong willed people, who use heavy strike, want some attention again. Heavy strike must torn targets appart. Your heavy strike dared to crit on shaper? his right arm will fall off, blood and meat flying around all of the place because your strike were really heavy. Also game still don't have any melee skill with bleed effect, maybe it's time. Heavy strike must be strongest solo target skill, bosses will suffer from undergrave injuries because you suffer from real melee range. Mob farm or boss farm, melee/ranged, elemental/physical, spell/attack variety of builds come from style you want to play, making versatile and strong skills for all situations is bad for skill balance, but good for fun - you always know that any content can be done even in bad gear, making ranged skills (even if they are use melee mechanic) best is bad for melee/range balance (although ranged skills will always be more versatile).

I really think that game needs mechanic like point blank to work for all of the skills, will it be cleave or split arrow, also if you use high range skill in boss fights with heavy running, melee range skills won't look so worse like now, though it'll need balancing too and that's not an easy task. And i think that gear class (es, eva, ar) must increase base stun avoidance and stun recovery, pure armor gear will have highest one avoidence and no recovery bonus and es gear highest recovery and no avoidence bonus.

All of this is due to the speed clearing meta. Flasks and Vaal skills became permanent skills - not the occasional steroid. If your build can't keep up permanent Vaal and Flasks, it's not good. This game would be unplayable if all the builds became slow dogs that took 5 minutes to clear a map. PoE is a grind game, made by Grinding Gear Game. If you took away the ability to grind efficiently, I might as play TL2 with my OP custom edited mods.

Leech was never the problem, every game has it. You see, PoE's very own design created this face tank problem. There are only so many possible outcome in a single player based game with no dedicated healer role.

1) Boss does so much damage that you can't take a single hit - PoE has this and we deal with it by spamming movement skill. This is a very binary game play style that's not very fun: either you take no damage or you can't play the game.
2) Boss does enough damage that so you have limited time to kill him before he kills you - PoE has this too and it's dealt with by using your 6 portals
3) Boss doesn't do enough damage - trivial case

There is only 1 thing that determines which of the 3 ways the fight will go, you GEAR. Everything is a gear check, that's it. You can reduce leech/reduce damage/reduce EHP whatever it will just increase the gear requirement. The skill you use in your build doesn't mean anything, only the effective damage it can deal with the gear you have. The more a skill scales with gear, the better it is. If Glacier Hammer dealt more damage and cleared faster than Blade Flurry, everyone would use it. Same with Elemental Hit.

Because GGG made it possible to trivialize case #2, only fights with one shot mechanic matter. Now the only way to make the game harder is to make one shot harder to dodge by making it faster. There is a limit to how much time you give a player to dodge in an online game so we've hit a ceiling. If #2 can't be trivialized because mechanic/gear/passive/talent gets nerfed too much, you can't play the game.
Last edited by godlyatheist on Feb 23, 2017, 2:38:11 AM
it's futile 'balancing' this game. in an effort to gain diversity to appeal to a bigger audience, over time there's just a bloated mess. close to a house of cards unfortunately.
well you can never go back to the early heady days of wonder and discovery.

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