Hello. Thank you for your guidance. It is described in great detail.
There is a question. In the guide, you specify the Ball Lightning spell (It just does damage and does nothing more.), but the video with the totem uses a different spell, which one?
Sorry for my english)
"
_ An arc of lightning stretches from the caster to a targeted nearby enemy and chains on to additional targets. ( Chains +(2-7) Times )
The advantage of Arc is that you only need a two link on it
_ Ball lightning need GMP to be max efficient (best spread)
But on boss due it's single target, they're both good enough.
Wait for the teacher for confirmation but there is my opinion ;)
"
But the damage there is very weak. Why do we need these spells on totems?
"
To trigger Elemental Equilibrium. It'll give the mobs you hit +25% resistance to lightning and -50% resistance to cold and fire. Golems don't trigger Elemental Equilibrium so it doesn't mess with this.
"
No, because Scorching Ray doesn't hit (similar to Righteous Fire), and Elemental Equilibrium needs a hit to trigger. The golems don't mess with it either because you are not the source of the hit in that case, so they don't apply Elemental Equilibrium.
Hey and thanks for briefing :)
Arc was used before Ball lightning as it did not have projectile flying speed and was instant. Once I was tipped about the Ball Lightning combo from Guide followers I tested it out and integrated it into guide as it was much more effective.
Arc still has lower impact on FPS drop, so players with low performance computers or someone just wanting so use 3rd socket for some new skill may benefit from using it.
Ball Lightning spreads EE to much wider radius, but can eat some FPS as there are so many projectiles flying around already.
Spells in totem are only used to trigger Elemental Equilibrium which triggers "on hit". It raises resistance to element that hit was done by 25% and lower rest by -50%. Minions can not proc EE as they are not you, so the EE debuff lasts for whole duration even if minions are hitting enemies.
As EE trigger only "on hit" Scorching Ray cant trigger it. SR just ignites enemies without ever "hitting" them.
"
tell me something.. what am I missing?
youi said we should keep our mana above 35% coz of the 2x damage but using blasphemy(35%) + discipline (35%) thats already 70%. so.. how? xD
"
Reduced mana reserved nodes. He grabs a total of 22% reduced mana reserved from the tree.
Hey!
Enough reduced mana reserved nodes keep us from low mana. The nodes work by dropping the mana reservation % of each aura we are using. If you are using Skin of the Loyal instead of mantle, you don't have to worry about low mana and can tweak the number of reservation nodes ;)
"
@mika
Good morning
I need to know lots of variables in this Character we play.
1) Minion speed how important? Will they be next to you when the fight start's.
2) The second curse I did on AG, were do you see this.
It seems there will be time to max all Resist will be a problem. Is this a worrying factor.
I see @kami_koi character don't know what his resit stats are.
I have noticed for my AG curse of 11%, I took a unique glove with ES and some other stats. The ES part was added to my character also is this common?
I have bought myself a 6-link armour Skin of the Loyal, other one to expensive.
It also seems getting the right jewel's are a problem
1) %ES
2) Minions damage
3) Minions resit
This is very expensive, not a lot of drops. Currently I opted for Minion damage and all resit.
What is the way forward.
Tnx for patience
"
Hi, doesn't the scorching ray flesh offering trick messes with the EE?
Thanks
1) I don't know about minion speed. Golem AI is pretty retarded even with the unique jewels that make them more aggressive. I personally wouldn't go out of my way to get minion move speed rings.
2) I don't understand the question. The curse is on the gloves you animate. In order to apply the curse, your AG has to hit the target.
As for resists, it shouldn't be too hard to cap, you can always run purity of elements for an extra 27%+ to all resists.
Hi!
1)
Minion speed is quality of life. Its not necessary but it increases clear speed my making Golems run around the screen farther away from you and shooting enemies off-screen. Golems will also run to totem faster once you place it by making defenses better.
2)
When AG hits enemies, you will see second curse symbol above them. With melee splash its more visible then without as if AG curses just boss, it might be so large that curses are not visible on it. You need the extra curse from "Whispers of Doom" for AG to be able to curse enemies with second curse if you have Temp Chains on.
Minions have 40% base resistance, then 16% from skill tree. This totals to 56% total and you need 19% from the jewels. 2x 9% minion ele res jewels will cap resistances good. Try to get at least minion damage as second line and all rest is bonus.
Stats on AG items never should affect you.
Skin Of the loyal is almost as good as Infernal Mantle. Lots of 96-97 level players use it as main armor.
Minions damage, minions resist are most important stats on rare jewels. Extra life and resists for yourself might be cheaper than extra ES.
"
@^
thanks for the quick response. another thing, when fighting bosses, whats the best option when replacing GMP?
"
There's a couple of options but:
a) I don't know which ones work and
b) I don't know which is the best.
The two that I'm not sure if they work are Slower Projectiles and Point Blank, because I don't know if the spells cast by the golems are classified as projectiles.
The two that I'm sure work are Culling Strike and Enhance. If you can afford a level 4 Enhance, and you are using a +1 chest, you'd give your golems +32% quality, which translates to 32% increased life and damage.
As for Culling Strike, the cull part works for sure, what I can't say for sure is if the increased damage that CS grants works with golems either.
Hi!
Slower Projectiles, Enhance and Culling Strike all work and each have different benefits.
- Slower projectiles gives most DPS of all green gems for Manga Balls. It does not boost other attacks damage at all.
- Enhance boosts all attacks damage less, but gives Golems also tons of life.
- Culling Strike boosts DSP less, but makes Golems cull, which can save time and be useful in parties if you are using MF gear.
- Point blank is not recommended.
"
just finished this build am trying it out now.
first impression is it feels fantastic.
feel free to look over my build and give advice if i made some mistake?
Hey and gz on getting all the gear ^^
Links and items look all good, you should be ready to face endgame very easy.
You can try taking "Skitterin Runes" curse effectiveness nodes for next 3x level to see how near maxed Temp Chains feels like. Its basically sacrificing 1 Jewel socket, but adds huge defense against non-boss enemies.
"
If you have 5 links for the chest, what are the priorities? Take out controlled destruction (assuming empower is priority)?
Hey :)
Priority is :
Golems -> Echo - > Minion Damage -> Gmp -> Empower (IF at least level 3) -> Controlled Destruction / Fire pene.
You can use Controlled destruction before Empower if you want more DPS as Controlled Destruction gives 40% more damage and and empower about 20% as emp 3 adds only 2 levels. Empower makes Golems tankier and makes boss fights easier as you dont have to worry about them dying.
UPDATE
The high level Desecrate is needed in alt sockets ONLY if still using Specters and raising them in act / map areas. I forgot to mention it at first but updated the info now. Players with 4x Goles have absolutely no need for level 20 Desecrate.
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
Last edited by mika2salo#7776 on Aug 27, 2017, 6:39:23 AM
I tried playing with Elemenetalist and found its playstyle too rippy for me. When running 6x Golems i died very often, or the Golems died to physical bosses (Minotaur, Chimera). When using 5x Golems and shield damage felt almost same as with Necro and I was missing Offering, Chaos cloud from dead Golems, Chaos resistance, etc from Ascendancy nodes.
I really like the concept if Elementalist but it's implemented poorly at the moment. Immortality node and AI after your dead makes Golems best for farming bosses while dead. All rest of nodes from Ascendancy are useless to Golemancer.
Sorry if it feels like I'm looking down on Elementalist. It just feels that Elementalist has to use much more active defenses and better items to get same defense that Necro gets for free. (20% elemental resistances, 21% chaos resistance, more block / movement speed). Golems resistances are capped with few jewels and 1 skill tree node and above level 23 they don't die to pretty much anything anyway.
I like variety and try to implement stuff into guide for people interested in going Elementalist, but I just have hard time deciding at which point and which stuff Elementalist does better than default Necromancer? For me it's not what build can or can't do in the end, it's about which can do it more effectively and efficiently.
So far I have tested and compared Necro Golemancer myself to :
- Guardian = Defense was bit better, but damage was much worse
- Occultist = Defense was bit better, but damage was much worse
- Scion = Damage & survival was much worse
- Elementalist = Damage was bit better, but survival was much worse
- Life based Necro = Damage & survival was much worse
As build works fine with both Ascendancys and skill-tree is basically the same, I recommend people trying both out if they are interested. I'm also interested in hearing comparison between Necro and Ele as there might be something I have not yet noticed?
Alright, well if you're still interested in hearing more blabber from me... :x Your comments about the tree indicate that you may want to test it more thoroughly. The tree is not the same, contrary to what you have been recommending to people in this thread. ELE doesn't take Herd the Flock or go out of the way for other minion life nodes or use rare jewels.
Re: NEC 20% elemental res
This is a non-factor. Both Ascendancies have zero-problems capping resists. ELE's Paragon of Calamity of also reduces elemental damage (which I believe works on top of max res for even more benefit).
Re: NEC 6% chaos res
Another non-factor. It's only 6%. Just like ELE's +6% all res isn't really worth mentioning.
Edit: Sorry, looked at the tree wrong. 21% which is a nice perk, but not really a deal-maker imo. Just like Paragon of Calamity isn't a deal-maker for ELE. Also, this doesn't matter for CI-based golem builds.
Re: capping golem res on NEC
That's just it though. ELE won't bother trying to spend jewel slots or path inefficiently towards Herd the Flock for this purpose. Those points will instead be spent on more ES/Life or more Harmony.
Re: more block/ms through self-boning
Yup, definitely NEC only. But like I said earlier, ELE fills these slots with other stuff instead. So it's more of an apples vs. oranges situation rather than a haves vs. have-nots.
Best case scenario for the rare minion jewel:
16% increased minion damage
8% ES
10% minion ele resist
4% minion block
This jewel rarely if ever appears on the market. Even the 3-mod one without the minion block can cost more than Anima Stone.
Best case scenario for Primordial Harmony
xx% increased golem casting cooldown rate (who cares)
15% increased cooldown rate (absolutely critical mod unavailable on a rare jewel)
60% increased minion damage (with 3 golem types)
2% golem life regen (another critical mod that shouldn't be skimped on)
Even a perfect 15/20 roll should be less than 1 exalt (sometimes as cheap as 10-15 chaos in a 3-month league) and is always available on the market.
You mentioned ELE golems dying to Chimera, which should never happen. Is this because you tried it using the jewels you use for Flame Golem 101? If that's the case, then I can understand why. On ELE, people have had more success by stacking more Harmonies, like 8-10 or even more. People that try to go ELE just by following your Flame Golem 101 setup may end up hitting a wall when they reach endgame because of insufficient golem regen.
vs. certain bosses
Even without taking minion life nodes, ELE golems shouldn't even be close dying to Chimera. The only major things they should potentially be dying to are Minotaur with stacked damage mods on map (as you mentioned) and Uber Trio bleed, both of which are situations that can easily be accounted for and sidestepped. There are a couple other more "wildcard" situations that can potentially kill them (HOGM and T15 Overgrown Ruin boss room with stacked mods and an unlucky boss mix), again, these are situations with easy fixes.
re: overall DPS
I personally feel that there probably isn't too much appreciable difference between ELE and NEC for hardcore. Neither build will try to stretch for 12+ Harmonies in HC. That said, ELE probably has more flexibility to build around damage and it should be mentioned that DPS is also something that can be considered defensive. The faster your fight, the less danger you expose yourself to over time. As an example, a boss-focused golem build (lightning) should be able to reduce Shaper to 2 add phases max, as opposed to a "defensive" build that may have to deal with 4 or more bullet hells and lots more Vortex crap.
Anyway...
I don't believe Elementalist is "implemented poorly". It's implemented differently, which means it should also be played differently to a degree at least. It's not a minion ascendancy after all, but one that focuses on, well, elements, whether that's golems or spells. Naturally, not all of the Ascendancy points should be related to golems/minions, but the ones that are should strongly correlate to the elemental aspect of golems (and this is indeed the case). It would be weird if all the ELE nodes had minion bonuses.
Overall, I don't think either Ascendancy is notably better than the other for any phase of the game.
Tempest Shield doesnt seem to work on my gloves with CWDT.
do I need to have the EXACT order of color as yours?
Neither Phase Run nor Tempest Shield will work on your setup because your CWDT is too low level and can only cast stuff requiring level 38 or less. Your Tempest Shield requires level 66 and your Phase Run requires level 70, so none of those will be triggered by it.
You need a lower level Tempest Shield and Phase Run and you can go for a bit of a higher level CWDT. Just make sure you read CWDT's description so you know what level skill gems can be linked to it.
News & Updates
Hall Of Fame
- "kami_koi" is the first player to reach level 98 with his build in league ^^
Definitely outdated... :'DDD
_ Due to my recent level up, i can feel my evilness growing...
I just started farming a bit guardians and didnt check, i let die my guardian AGAIN , before buying AGAIN gear for that dumbass, i was wondering if there wasnt a better setup instead of this lazy autoattacker, the more time goes, and the more am feeling he is absolutely useless XD
Maybea stronger spell totem link with curse on hit and flammability ? :o
*edit* Nevermind, spell totem can't curse on hit :{
*edit edit* Coming back with new idea XD (damn this c***t AG will survive)
I didnt buy back gloves with elemental weakness for AG, i swapped totem link, now i've Arc + curse on hit + flammability
I'll try it a bit tonight and comeback for feedback :}
*EDIT EDIT EDIT* Ok ok that was a big mistake, theese golems are too dumb to play without guide (even with agressive jewel) being too stationnary with this build is suicide, best combo is mika 's one
Last edited by kami_koi#1041 on Aug 27, 2017, 4:30:23 PM
I already got Anima Stone, 1x p.. Might and 2x P.Harmony (so i got my 4 Golems).
For the next improvement in DMG shall i ger more P. Harmony or the yellow jewls with inc minion dmg and resis?
Another question, my gems for Golems are about lvl 17-18. Is it already worth to use Empower (In Tabu) or shall i stick with FirePen untill all gems are lvl 20.
Last edited by Uselchen#1390 on Aug 27, 2017, 12:10:21 PM
Tempest Shield doesnt seem to work on my gloves with CWDT.
do I need to have the EXACT order of color as yours?
"
Neither Phase Run nor Tempest Shield will work on your setup because your CWDT is too low level and can only cast stuff requiring level 38 or less. Your Tempest Shield requires level 66 and your Phase Run requires level 70, so none of those will be triggered by it.
You need a lower level Tempest Shield and Phase Run and you can go for a bit of a higher level CWDT. Just make sure you read CWDT's description so you know what level skill gems can be linked to it.
Hey!
Yes, your gems are too high level for Cast When Damage Taken. You are linking them to level 1 CWDT, which supports spells up to level 38. Phase Run should be kept at level 3, as its the only gem which benefits from level. Desecrate and Tempest Shield should be level 1.
"
tomatopotato wrote:
"
mika2salo wrote:
Hey :)
The self-boning really sounds bit dirty ^^
I tried playing with Elemenetalist and found its playstyle too rippy for me. When running 6x Golems i died very often, or the Golems died to physical bosses (Minotaur, Chimera). When using 5x Golems and shield damage felt almost same as with Necro and I was missing Offering, Chaos cloud from dead Golems, Chaos resistance, etc from Ascendancy nodes.
I really like the concept if Elementalist but it's implemented poorly at the moment. Immortality node and AI after your dead makes Golems best for farming bosses while dead. All rest of nodes from Ascendancy are useless to Golemancer.
Sorry if it feels like I'm looking down on Elementalist. It just feels that Elementalist has to use much more active defenses and better items to get same defense that Necro gets for free. (20% elemental resistances, 21% chaos resistance, more block / movement speed). Golems resistances are capped with few jewels and 1 skill tree node and above level 23 they don't die to pretty much anything anyway.
I like variety and try to implement stuff into guide for people interested in going Elementalist, but I just have hard time deciding at which point and which stuff Elementalist does better than default Necromancer? For me it's not what build can or can't do in the end, it's about which can do it more effectively and efficiently.
So far I have tested and compared Necro Golemancer myself to :
- Guardian = Defense was bit better, but damage was much worse
- Occultist = Defense was bit better, but damage was much worse
- Scion = Damage & survival was much worse
- Elementalist = Damage was bit better, but survival was much worse
- Life based Necro = Damage & survival was much worse
As build works fine with both Ascendancys and skill-tree is basically the same, I recommend people trying both out if they are interested. I'm also interested in hearing comparison between Necro and Ele as there might be something I have not yet noticed?
Alright, well if you're still interested in hearing more blabber from me... :x Your comments about the tree indicate that you may want to test it more thoroughly. The tree is not the same, contrary to what you have been recommending to people in this thread. ELE doesn't take Herd the Flock or go out of the way for other minion life nodes or use rare jewels.
Re: NEC 20% elemental res
This is a non-factor. Both Ascendancies have zero-problems capping resists. ELE's Paragon of Calamity of also reduces elemental damage (which I believe works on top of max res for even more benefit).
Re: NEC 6% chaos res
Another non-factor. It's only 6%. Just like ELE's +6% all res isn't really worth mentioning.
Edit: Sorry, looked at the tree wrong. 21% which is a nice perk, but not really a deal-maker imo. Just like Paragon of Calamity isn't a deal-maker for ELE. Also, this doesn't matter for CI-based golem builds.
Re: capping golem res on NEC
That's just it though. ELE won't bother trying to spend jewel slots or path inefficiently towards Herd the Flock for this purpose. Those points will instead be spent on more ES/Life or more Harmony.
Re: more block/ms through self-boning
Yup, definitely NEC only. But like I said earlier, ELE fills these slots with other stuff instead. So it's more of an apples vs. oranges situation rather than a haves vs. have-nots.
Best case scenario for the rare minion jewel:
16% increased minion damage
8% ES
10% minion ele resist
4% minion block
This jewel rarely if ever appears on the market. Even the 3-mod one without the minion block can cost more than Anima Stone.
Best case scenario for Primordial Harmony
xx% increased golem casting cooldown rate (who cares)
15% increased cooldown rate (absolutely critical mod unavailable on a rare jewel)
60% increased minion damage (with 3 golem types)
2% golem life regen (another critical mod that shouldn't be skimped on)
Even a perfect 15/20 roll should be less than 1 exalt (sometimes as cheap as 10-15 chaos in a 3-month league) and is always available on the market.
You mentioned ELE golems dying to Chimera, which should never happen. Is this because you tried it using the jewels you use for Flame Golem 101? If that's the case, then I can understand why. On ELE, people have had more success by stacking more Harmonies, like 8-10 or even more. People that try to go ELE just by following your Flame Golem 101 setup may end up hitting a wall when they reach endgame because of insufficient golem regen.
vs. certain bosses
Even without taking minion life nodes, ELE golems shouldn't even be close dying to Chimera. The only major things they should potentially be dying to are Minotaur with stacked damage mods on map (as you mentioned) and Uber Trio bleed, both of which are situations that can easily be accounted for and sidestepped. There are a couple other more "wildcard" situations that can potentially kill them (HOGM and T15 Overgrown Ruin boss room with stacked mods and an unlucky boss mix), again, these are situations with easy fixes.
re: overall DPS
I personally feel that there probably isn't too much appreciable difference between ELE and NEC for hardcore. Neither build will try to stretch for 12+ Harmonies in HC. That said, ELE probably has more flexibility to build around damage and it should be mentioned that DPS is also something that can be considered defensive. The faster your fight, the less danger you expose yourself to over time. As an example, a boss-focused golem build (lightning) should be able to reduce Shaper to 2 add phases max, as opposed to a "defensive" build that may have to deal with 4 or more bullet hells and lots more Vortex crap.
Anyway...
I don't believe Elementalist is "implemented poorly". It's implemented differently, which means it should also be played differently to a degree at least. It's not a minion ascendancy after all, but one that focuses on, well, elements, whether that's golems or spells. Naturally, not all of the Ascendancy points should be related to golems/minions, but the ones that are should strongly correlate to the elemental aspect of golems (and this is indeed the case). It would be weird if all the ELE nodes had minion bonuses.
Overall, I don't think either Ascendancy is notably better than the other for any phase of the game.
Hi :)
Just checked the "Paragon Of Calamity" and noticed the 8% less elemental damage taken. It's more closer to minor gods from Pantheon that full Ascendancy nodes, but ill take back that all rest of Ascendancy nodes are useless. At least 4/8 Ascendancy nodes are doing something which is not that bad.
Herd of flock and Ele resistance Jewels are needed for AG even when using Elementalist. AG gives tons of benefits that can compete for a few seconds faster boss kill time by Primordial Harmonies but its a matter of taste between passive defense vs offense / active defense.
"15% increased cooldown rate (absolutely critical mod unavailable on a rare jewel)" I'm interested if this affects Flame Golems in anyway. As far as I know they have no cooldown in any skill they have.
Sorry I can't answer longer, but I'm accessing forums by tablet for a week.
You post was very detailed and ill give Elementalist some more points. Necro is still far superior for my builds play-style, but I won't refer to Elementalist as just dead boss farmer.
"
Definitely outdated... :'DDD
_ Due to my recent level up, i can feel my evilness growing...
I just started farming a bit guardians and didnt check, i let die my guardian AGAIN , before buying AGAIN gear for that dumbass, i was wondering if there wasnt a better setup instead of this lazy autoattacker, the more time goes, and the more am feeling he is absolutely useless XD
Maybea stronger spell totem link with curse on hit and flammability ? :o
*edit* Nevermind, spell totem can't curse on hit :{
*edit edit* Coming back with new idea XD (damn this c***t AG will survive)
I didnt buy back gloves with elemental weakness for AG, i swapped totem link, now i've Arc + curse on hit + flammability
I'll try it a bit tonight and comeback for feedback :}
*EDIT EDIT EDIT* Ok ok that was a big mistake, theese golems are too dumb to play without guide (even with agressive jewel) being too stationnary with this build is suicide, best combo is mika 's one
Come on, I just update Hall Of Fame last week for you!
Seriously, gz on crazy high level! ^^
R.i.p AG. It sure is great at herding Golems to battle and keeping them in target. Hopefully your new one wont die :/
"
if I dont want to use CWDT on my bone offering+duration, what other support gem can I use for BO?
Hey!
You can link Bone Offering as :
Scorching Ray -> Cast While Channeling -> Desecrate -> Bone Offering
This keeps Bone Offering up all the time, while guiding Golems to fight and lowers enemys Fire Resistance. Scorching Ray doesnt hit, so it doesn't mess with Elemental Equilibrium ;)
"
Hey i got a question for the Jewls.
I already got Anima Stone, 1x p.. Might and 2x P.Harmony (so i got my 4 Golems).
For the next improvement in DMG shall i ger more P. Harmony or the yellow jewls with inc minion dmg and resis?
Another question, my gems for Golems are about lvl 17-18. Is it already worth to use Empower (In Tabu) or shall i stick with FirePen untill all gems are lvl 20.
Hello :)
Best improvement to damage is to buy level 20/20 corrupt Flame Golem and use Empower if its at least level 3. Golems base level is most significant damage boost for them.
Rare jewels are great for capping Golems elemental resistance and giving them almost same damage as Primordial Harmony. It's more useful to get 2x Rare jewels first, and then stack more Primordial Harmonies.
Fire Pene is better to use until Empower is at least level 3.
UPDATE
"kami_koi" is the first player to reach level 99 with his build in league ^^
\o/ Gz on level up! \o/
He's profile is public if you are interested in hes links / tree.
I'm traveling for a week and can only access forums with half broken tablet. I can't make any item link posts as I cant access Poe and I need to keep answers quite short, but will be answering 1-2 times daily in forums ;)
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
Last edited by mika2salo#7776 on Aug 27, 2017, 7:49:41 PM
if I dont want to use CWDT on my bone offering+duration, what other support gem can I use for BO?
Hey!
You can link Bone Offering as :
Scorching Ray -> Cast While Channeling -> Desecrate -> Bone Offering
This keeps Bone Offering up all the time, while guiding Golems to fight and lowers enemys Fire Resistance. Scorching Ray doesnt hit, so it doesn't mess with Elemental Equilibrium ;)
any other support skills that bone offering works with aside from duration?
