[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

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omar_little_aus wrote:

is it worth to have a herald of ash aura ?

how much dps would it give to golems?

Herald of Ash is for physical damage. Arent fire golems elemental?

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DrHarvey12 wrote:

I remember Mika answering something like this a few pages back. This is @Mika2Salo's response:

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mika2salo wrote:

Hi :)

Elementalist has only one good Ascenancy node for Golems and has very low defense. Ele is good for farming bosses at early game when reaching T16 maps, Shaper and Atziri. However level progression will be very slow as Ele dies more often.

I usually recommend :
Acts -> t15 = Necro
Early endgame = Elementalist
Late endgame = Necro

mika2salo, look, you found a method with Necromancer that works for you. It's great, and I'm glad you're sharing it with people, but there's really no need to put down other build types like that with false information. I really recommend you actually try playing Elementalist in depth or you'll end up confusing a lot of beginners who follow your guide.

I'll explain why Elementalist doesn't have "very low defense".

First, the only appreciable defensive difference between ELE and NEC is self-Bone Offering (man, that sounds dirty :P). Other than that, both have access to pretty much the same tools.

Second, ELE and NEC (and pretty much every build out there) has the same defensive resources to work with outside of the tree: gear and gem slots. Both of these are highly limited and valuable resources. In order to give yourself Bone Offering, you must spend at least two slots (more if you want to auto-trigger instead of self-cast). Because ELE doesn't have access to self-Boning, a typical Golementalist will spend those slots on other defensive measures. For example:

Immortal Call
Vaal Discipline
Arctic Armour
Enfeeble
Phase Run
other movement skills
Haste
Frost Wall
etc, etc.

Looking at your build, Immortal Call and Vaal Discipline are very notable omissions from your setup. Does this make your build worse defensively? Not necessarily. Does this make NEC better than ELE? Again, not necessarily. To answer those questions, we'd have to look at how usage stacks up against maps/bosses and stuff, which is a whole other conversation.

This is one major reason why Summoners are relatively squishy compared to other builds. Our trees are less focused on mitigation and we have less access to "free" defenses, like Gladiator's Versatile Combatant for example, which gives you Spell Block equal to your regular Block with zero gear/gem slot investment. Now that is real defensive boost.

Suffice to say though, the "very low defense" claim is not an accurate one to make. You'll be more able to help your build and the people following it if you think about it more. Don't trust reddit or even these forums. Reddit sucks. There are a lot of vocal people on there that say stuff without having actual proof, and claim how Build X is superior and Build Y or Z sucks based on something they were told and backed by the fact that they play Build X, so of course they want to believe their version is the "superior" version.

Please actually play ELE and you will see it is just as viable for endgame as NEC. I'm sure there are many Golementalists that have been just as deathlessly successful as any NEC in endgame (and I'm not talking about that lame "kill while dead" BS either). Heck, there's another very good guide on the forum (allana's) that actually recommends the exact opposite of what you said (NEC for early endgame, ELE for late).

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Shiverwarp wrote:

I personally don't value shock removal very high anymore with the nerfs to shock. Shocked ground especially. Shock removal was a must have for breaches when it was almost guaranteed you'd be standing in shocked ground for a good amount of time. Now that it's only 10%, I'd probably value getting a rumi's more.

But I'm in HC and running two health pots.

Very much agreed. I run a Quartz almost full-time now instead. The only time I could see a need for a Grounding Flask now is against Atziri/Oversouls.

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Shiverwarp wrote:

So I've been playing this build in Hardcore Harbinger, a lot of fun. I've put a bit of my own customization on it, but I've been using this for a lot of the guidelines.

I'd just like to make a big PSA, that the CWDT -> Desecrate -> Bone Offering combo DOES NOT actually work.

Confirmation here from GGG (snip)

This is great information. Thank you.

Hi guys, my name is Sow and I want to say thanks for this guide.
Im a brand new player, started this season and achieve to kill Shaper in less than 2weeks playing, so big credit for this wonderful guide and thumbs up!

Im feeling stuck for a few days, if someone can look up at my character and tells me what's wrong would be awesome!

Next goals are : Chayula's neck, Chest +1 Corrupted and Empower 4, pretty expensive stuff and I rly dont know what to aim on Rings/Rare Items

Big credits for _Extremo_ guy too, I saw a good survival chance there on his helm just running double curse Enfeeble+Temporal Chains and copied it, feeling less squishy now.

Theory is to map faster I change Bone for Flesh Offering and for bosses I get other shield to protect minions since Im not getting frenzys right? And pls any advise on gear its appreciated <3

Big thanks all in advance.

(My boots are like that cause I'm out of little currency, just going Shield+Blood+Faster)
I rly dont like to use Animated Guardian..

Morning

It works have tested it. Seq. is very important as Mika said.

First seq. I did was: Tempest Shield-> CWDT -> Desecrate -> Phase run. It did not work.

With correct Seq. it works

Now last question last setup 20%,20% and 20%/. Mine is CWDT (13)-> inc Duration 19/20% ->Boneoffering(16)

I this ok.

"

omar_little_aus wrote:

is it worth to have a herald of ash aura ?

how much dps would it give to golems?

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Herald of Ash is for physical damage. Arent fire golems elemental?

Hey!

Herald of ash is for melee damage and only for yourself, so it doesn't work as aura for minions. Anger will give Golems some fire damage, but you have to run it with blasphemy or it will give yourself fire damage also and that will ruin Elemental Equilibrium from totem.

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mika2salo, look, you found a method with Necromancer that works for you. It's great, and I'm glad you're sharing it with people, but there's really no need to put down other build types like that with false information. I really recommend you actually try playing Elementalist in depth or you'll end up confusing a lot of beginners who follow your guide.

I'll explain why Elementalist doesn't have "very low defense".

First, the only appreciable defensive difference between ELE and NEC is self-Bone Offering (man, that sounds dirty :P). Other than that, both have access to pretty much the same tools.

Second, ELE and NEC (and pretty much every build out there) has the same defensive resources to work with outside of the tree: gear and gem slots. Both of these are highly limited and valuable resources. In order to give yourself Bone Offering, you must spend at least two slots (more if you want to auto-trigger instead of self-cast). Because ELE doesn't have access to self-Boning, a typical Golementalist will spend those slots on other defensive measures. For example:

Immortal Call
Vaal Discipline
Arctic Armour
Enfeeble
Phase Run
other movement skills
Haste
Frost Wall
etc, etc.

Looking at your build, Immortal Call and Vaal Discipline are very notable omissions from your setup. Does this make your build worse defensively? Not necessarily. Does this make NEC better than ELE? Again, not necessarily. To answer those questions, we'd have to look at how usage stacks up against maps/bosses and stuff, which is a whole other conversation.

This is one major reason why Summoners are relatively squishy compared to other builds. Our trees are less focused on mitigation and we have less access to "free" defenses, like Gladiator's Versatile Combatant for example, which gives you Spell Block equal to your regular Block with zero gear/gem slot investment. Now that is real defensive boost.

Suffice to say though, the "very low defense" claim is not an accurate one to make. You'll be more able to help your build and the people following it if you think about it more. Don't trust reddit or even these forums. Reddit sucks. There are a lot of vocal people on there that say stuff without having actual proof, and claim how Build X is superior and Build Y or Z sucks based on something they were told and backed by the fact that they play Build X, so of course they want to believe their version is the "superior" version.

Please actually play ELE and you will see it is just as viable for endgame as NEC. I'm sure there are many Golementalists that have been just as deathlessly successful as any NEC in endgame (and I'm not talking about that lame "kill while dead" BS either). Heck, there's another very good guide on the forum (allana's) that actually recommends the exact opposite of what you said (NEC for early endgame, ELE for late).

Hey :)

The self-boning really sounds bit dirty ^^

I tried playing with Elemenetalist and found its playstyle too rippy for me. When running 6x Golems i died very often, or the Golems died to physical bosses (Minotaur, Chimera). When using 5x Golems and shield damage felt almost same as with Necro and I was missing Offering, Chaos cloud from dead Golems, Chaos resistance, etc from Ascendancy nodes.

I really like the concept if Elementalist but it's implemented poorly at the moment. Immortality node and AI after your dead makes Golems best for farming bosses while dead. All rest of nodes from Ascendancy are useless to Golemancer.

Sorry if it feels like I'm looking down on Elementalist. It just feels that Elementalist has to use much more active defenses and better items to get same defense that Necro gets for free. (20% elemental resistances, 21% chaos resistance, more block / movement speed). Golems resistances are capped with few jewels and 1 skill tree node and above level 23 they don't die to pretty much anything anyway.

I like variety and try to implement stuff into guide for people interested in going Elementalist, but I just have hard time deciding at which point and which stuff Elementalist does better than default Necromancer? For me it's not what build can or can't do in the end, it's about which can do it more effectively and efficiently.

So far I have tested and compared Necro Golemancer myself to :

- Guardian = Defense was bit better, but damage was much worse
- Occultist = Defense was bit better, but damage was much worse
- Scion = Damage & survival was much worse
- Elementalist = Damage was bit better, but survival was much worse
- Life based Necro = Damage & survival was much worse

As build works fine with both Ascendancys and skill-tree is basically the same, I recommend people trying both out if they are interested. I'm also interested in hearing comparison between Necro and Ele as there might be something I have not yet noticed?

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Hi guys, my name is Sow and I want to say thanks for this guide.
Im a brand new player, started this season and achieve to kill Shaper in less than 2weeks playing, so big credit for this wonderful guide and thumbs up!

Im feeling stuck for a few days, if someone can look up at my character and tells me what's wrong would be awesome!

Next goals are : Chayula's neck, Chest +1 Corrupted and Empower 4, pretty expensive stuff and I rly dont know what to aim on Rings/Rare Items

Big credits for _Extremo_ guy too, I saw a good survival chance there on his helm just running double curse Enfeeble+Temporal Chains and copied it, feeling less squishy now.

Theory is to map faster I change Bone for Flesh Offering and for bosses I get other shield to protect minions since Im not getting frenzys right? And pls any advise on gear its appreciated <3

Big thanks all in advance.

(My boots are like that cause I'm out of little currency, just going Shield+Blood+Faster)
I rly dont like to use Animated Guardian..

Hey and thanks for support :)

Gz on Shaper kill in 2 weeks, that's insane speed!

Glad you found good gem layouts from the thread. There are some brilliant people writing in this thread and many might have setups more suited for your play-style so check public profiles and try mixing different players skills ;)

Animate Guardian is more for defensive stuff and doesn't add much to clear speed unless you sacrifice some of its defenses. You can make him party damage / speed buffer with lowered defenses by equipping him with :
- Dying Breath (18% party damage as aura, 18% curse effectiveness)
- Leer Cast (15% party damage as aura)
- Victario's Flight (10% party movement speed as aura)

If you change shield, you will lose the charges. However with high enough level Golems you don't really need to change the shield for except maybe Shaper. I'm doing all Guardians now with Victario's Charity as Golems (Level 27) can easily tank boss damage with capped Elemental resistances.

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Morning

It works have tested it. Seq. is very important as Mika said.

First seq. I did was: Tempest Shield-> CWDT -> Desecrate -> Phase run. It did not work.

With correct Seq. it works

Now last question last setup 20%,20% and 20%/. Mine is CWDT (13)-> inc Duration 19/20% ->Boneoffering(16)

I this ok.

Hi!

Yep, sequence is very important on CWDT. Thanks for posting results :)

The second CWDT level can be customized to suit own taste. I recommend keeping at least 10 level difference between CWDT levels to prevent CWDTs canceling each other out, but other than that just check that active skills are below / same as CWDT supported level.

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@mika2salo Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions :)

Np, glad to help ^^

For anyone trying to get right colors on gloves :

You can use trick with Vorici's bench :

1. Force 2 sockets craft (Will be only 2 sockets on item)
2. Force red + Green sockets craft (Will be only 1 red and 1 green sockets on item)
3. Force 3 sockets craft (Will be only 1 red and 1 green socket + 1 new random color on item) (Try to get blue one)
4. If you don't get wanted color (Blue) repeat part 1. (Will be only 1 red and 1 green sockets on item)

5. If you get wanted color proceed to 4th socket crafting

6. Force 4 sockets craft (Will be only 1 red and 1 green socket + 1 wanted color from earlier crafting on item + 1 new random color on item)(Try to get Green one)
7. If you don't get wanted color (Green) repeat part 3.

If you just force 3x colors, they always are in order from bench text which does not work for wanted colors.

Random spamming chroms works also but can easily take few hundred chroms, so be prepared for it.

You can also drop Tempest shield from the colors and use high level Convocation instead, so that CWDT(level 1) cant cast it. Just cast it manually and make sure that Phase Run is after Desecrate in links.

hi thanks for your guide.

im hoarding the items to get started with this build, only 2xx chaos until start (invested 2k or so), tomorrow is the day :)

is it correct that it doesnt matter which skillgem is first or second or third, as long as phase run is in the last position? sorry if you wrote that already but i didnt understand it yet :/

Thanks for all the hard work!

Getting lost in the leveling process. Trying to follow the leveling passive tree and gear recommendations, but am getting off-track with skill gems. By that I mean I'm not sure how or what to prioritize. My life is extremely low, along with resists, and my 4 Flame Sentinels die frequently in boss encounters. At lvl 43, I still have not completed the first trials. Any advice of what to trim out of the build/prioritize? I think my build is public, not private.

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Laee wrote:

hi thanks for your guide.

im hoarding the items to get started with this build, only 2xx chaos until start (invested 2k or so), tomorrow is the day :)

is it correct that it doesnt matter which skillgem is first or second or third, as long as phase run is in the last position? sorry if you wrote that already but i didnt understand it yet :/

Hey and gz on starting as Golemancer ^^

Yep, only the Phase Run as third matters. Cast When Damage Taken casts spells in order and Phase Run get canceled out if there is any spell after it. Rest of the the gems can be in any order as it wont matter for the chain.

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Thanks for all the hard work!

Getting lost in the leveling process. Trying to follow the leveling passive tree and gear recommendations, but am getting off-track with skill gems. By that I mean I'm not sure how or what to prioritize. My life is extremely low, along with resists, and my 4 Flame Sentinels die frequently in boss encounters. At lvl 43, I still have not completed the first trials. Any advice of what to trim out of the build/prioritize? I think my build is public, not private.

Hello and thanks for support :)

At level 43 Flame Golems are very weak and Specters are actually more stronger. Empower of Skin of the Loyals extra level would beef them up, but its easier to go with Zombies and Specters while leveling Flame Golems to higher level.

Your links are pretty interesting atm.

Srs looks good on wand.

I would link Specters as five link on Armor :

Specters -> Minion damage -> Echo -> Greater Multiple Projectiles -> Controlled Destruction

Zombies in helmet as 4 link :

Zombie -> Minion life -> Fortify -> Minion damage / Melee physical damage

Flame Golems are better later when they get more level and you can summon multiples out. Try to buy level 20/20 corrupt flame Golems for few chaos when you get to level 70 to really boost your dps and survival.

At level fiftynine you can buy "Vis Mortis" armor to boost your Energy shield and get extra Specter for more damage. At your level good ES / life items are quite rare if you don't want to be trading every few levels. Better just max out Minions number, damage and defense and let them do the fighting for you ;)