[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

Finally have 75% resist chaos (thx chayula's presence), and god, it helps so much in incursions / temple ! <3

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popotm wrote:

Can anyone tell me how many Harmony use for this build cant find on guide.

iirc, there are 8 harmony (can't open it right now). You can put some more by changing the tree if you want to also.

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Tomgathericon wrote:

Thanks for all the help, sorry I'm asking so much.

If I do the standard necro version your build describes, what golems do I use? All flame, or 1 stone golem?

Only flames (4 golems)

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Holografik wrote:

Hey, i want to start a golem build, but im kinda lost in this guide, you say that u can do a elementalist with 6 golems, but you don't say what i should do if i want to go as elementalist, only as a necro.
And another thing, i have all the stones for the build, even the Skin of the Loyal, is there a way that i can play with golem sooner, or i really need to play with spectres all the way until i finish the game?

I think there's an elementalist tree in the first post. Also, going for elementalist is roughly the same (if you follow the build) as a necro, you can just ignore all the resistance node (for minions) as elemental golems are immune to elemental damages.
If you already have everything, you can start playing golems as soon as you can use the skill gems / jewels / clayshaper. Spectres (for the elementalist) are more an help to make it easier.

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30silvercoins wrote:

would cast speed from Primordial Eminence help if such case? or should use harmony as many as possible?

I think you need some harmonies first to lower the golem cooldowns before trying to fasten the cast of the golem skills, or you might face golems trying to cast too quick and being limited by their cooldown.
I believe eminence can help, but only after 6-8 harmonies at least. (I didn't made any tests, but POB says for example that 7 harmonies and 3 eminences has a better dps than 10 harmonies, but it is still only theoretical data)

Okay, now I like discussing mechanics and testing and all, but this is getting a little silly. I try to back statements up with numbers or video/proof. But it seems like every time I bring some data, you come back with strange speculation like "moving targets" (which btw also affects Flame Golems, TVs, SGs, etc., not just Lightning Golems) or stuff like this:

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mika2salo wrote:

I agree that atm, both Golems are pretty close to each other but Flame Golems have aoe attacks, which gives them advantage in clearing tight packs. However in sparse monster density or at boss fight they are about equal.

Lightning Golems love tight packs just as much as Split Arrow Rangers (e.g. a lot). Anybody that plays Lightning Golems for a decent amount of time would know this. LGs don't have the typical "splat" type AOE. But if you build them right, they have decent AOE in their own style. Pierce, as you probably know, allows up to 5 targets to be hit with a single projectile. Here's a video example of Chayula Breachstone (before the Elementalist buffs; 6 golems max).

I don't want to sound harsh, but please reserve judgement on a skill until you actually play it. Honestly, try playing Elementalist for a league, not just "testing" in a Tabula for a weekend or something. It doesn't even have to be Lightning. I honestly don't care what type is the "best". I play all types. I just want to see better, more accurate info.

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I'll try to make new video with 4x Golems and 4x TV Specs using combustion soon. That should be good enough for comparison. Elemental Equilibrium will be changed (nerfed) soon, so Combustion is great boost for Golems and Specters as TVs give their own debuff and Golems their own now.

So the comparison I posted early was not good enough? Note that for the pure golem run that I didn't even bring a Scorching Ray setup in a Burning helm and it still put out the same DPS as the Golem+Spectre mix. I do encourage testing, but as I pointed out with the numbers earlier, I highly doubt Combustion will significantly change the result.

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Can Lightning Golems compensate for the loss of EE?

Not sure. I'll see when it comes out. At the moment, I would say there's not much I can do except slot Penetration. At the same time, I think Lightning does plenty of damage even without EE. Anyway, I can't control what GGG does. They seem to be focused more on fire-based abilities. Elder/Shaper items synergize poorly with non-Flame golems. Chance to Ignite was upgraded to Combustion, but equivalent Chance to Shock/Freeze gems don't exist. Shock stacks got deleted. Shock effect on bosses tends to be bad unless you're Elementalist. etc. etc.

Will deal with that when it comes up though. I'm curious why this EE/Lightning Golem thing even matters? The discussion (I thought) was whether Spectres are worth it or not as Elementalist. I don't care what people think is the "best" golem. I'm just pointing out what I think is inaccurate. How about we avoid turning this into a Flame vs. Lightning debate?

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Maybe the moving target problem is not that big deal anymore.

It never was.

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I think I have lvl 97 witch unspecced so maybe ill spec it for your guide to test Lightning Golems out as they are next Golems to go for if Flame Golems get nerfed someday, which I however highly doubt will happen.

If you're doing it because you enjoy testing and want to learn more, sure, go for it. But if it's not something you really enjoy, then maybe don't bother?

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Taunt should definitely work and guild has mentioned significantly less aggro from bosses / enemies after using vaal skels with taunt jewel. Other threads that I quickly googled also report that taunt is working well. Have you tested it with other minions as Lightning Golems can't trigger taunt as they don't have attacks?

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying it might not work effectively. It might sound counter-intuitive, but for the endgame bosses, it's actually situationally better for the summoner to have aggro. That way you can bait or at least better predict the next attack. If the boss randomly decides to target the minion and happens to (un)luckily aim where you were planning to move, then you might be eating a significant chunk of damage.

Also, like I said earlier, if you're willing to spend a gem slot for Taunt, why wouldn't you just use something more guaranteed aka Decoy Totem? That way you wouldn't have to spend a jewel slot/affix on RNG. That's what I did in Abyss League for a while and it was fine for what it was. I'm not sure why I would pick Chance to Taunt over the other better (imo) suffixes.

(And again with the random criticism of Lightning Golems? When the same criticism applies to Flame? sigh... FYI, if I was forced to pick one of the Minions have Chance to x/y/z mods, it would be Hinder, since it synergizes better. No need to burn a gem slot to make it viable. I'm surprised you wouldn't either, considering your build emphasizes slowing enemies down so much.)

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Anakhon wrote:

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30silvercoins wrote:

would cast speed from Primordial Eminence help if such case? or should use harmony as many as possible?

I think you need some harmonies first to lower the golem cooldowns before trying to fasten the cast of the golem skills, or you might face golems trying to cast too quick and being limited by their cooldown.
I believe eminence can help, but only after 6-8 harmonies at least. (I didn't made any tests, but POB says for example that 7 harmonies and 3 eminences has a better dps than 10 harmonies, but it is still only theoretical data)

POB doesn't factor the cooldown cap from what I can tell. You can check any Flame Golem POB tree. Throw in Haste, Vaal Haste, make it an impossible 7 or 8-link with Faster Casting, Minion Speed, and add Flesh Offering. The DPS counter will keep going up and up each time, well past the point where cooldown is clearly the bottleneck. That's why ticking the "Do your minions use Frenzy Charges" checkbox is sadly unreliable.

If you're not sure, just go with all Harmony.

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Tomgathericon wrote:

Thanks for all the help, sorry I'm asking so much.

If I do the standard necro version your build describes, what golems do I use? All flame, or 1 stone golem?

"

Only flames (4 golems)

Hello :)

Mixing Golems is mostly reserved for Elementalist. If you swap 1x Golem from Necro or Occu, you are losing way more damage than gaining. 4x Flame Golems are best for Necro.

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Can anyone tell me how many Harmony use for this build cant find on guide.

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iirc, there are 8 harmony (can't open it right now). You can put some more by changing the tree if you want to also.

Hey :)

You need 5-6 Harmonies to let Golems with good cooldown speed. You can mix 1-2 rare jewels in if you want to cap elemental resistances, add useful abilities for minions or get more HP / ES. However if you don't need any of those you can go all in with Harmonies for most damage.

Usually trial and error lets find good balance as damage starts to be plenty even with 5-6 Harmonies. For Uber Elder etc, I recommend using only Harmonies for maximal kill speed.

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Hey, i want to start a golem build, but im kinda lost in this guide, you say that u can do a elementalist with 6 golems, but you don't say what i should do if i want to go as elementalist, only as a necro.
And another thing, i have all the stones for the build, even the Skin of the Loyal, is there a way that i can play with golem sooner, or i really need to play with spectres all the way until i finish the game?

"

I think there's an elementalist tree in the first post. Also, going for elementalist is roughly the same (if you follow the build) as a necro, you can just ignore all the resistance node (for minions) as elemental golems are immune to elemental damages.
If you already have everything, you can start playing golems as soon as you can use the skill gems / jewels / clayshaper. Spectres (for the elementalist) are more an help to make it easier.

Hi :)

There really is Pob tree for Elemnentalist in PASSIVES -> ALTERNATIVE FINAL TREE AS ELEMENTALIST

Elementalist levels pretty much same way as Necro. Tree is almost identical and most gear so it's easy to swap between variants. You can keep Specters or swap them for some other skill if you want to go for pure Golemancer.

You can start using Golems as soon as you can summon 4x out. Switching in guide is meant for new leagues where getting enough currency for Anima Stone might take long time. If you have already Sotl and Anima, you can switch over to Golems as soon as you want. Specters are great DPS boost but not needed with Elementalist.

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Swapped from TV necro to full flame golem elementalist, feels easier for gearing up and temple farming

Now my build got 6 Primordial Harmony, can still spare 2, maybe up to 4 more jewel sockets

would cast speed from Primordial Eminence help if such case? or should use harmony as many as possible?

Thx alot

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I think you need some harmonies first to lower the golem cooldowns before trying to fasten the cast of the golem skills, or you might face golems trying to cast too quick and being limited by their cooldown.
I believe eminence can help, but only after 6-8 harmonies at least. (I didn't made any tests, but POB says for example that 7 harmonies and 3 eminences has a better dps than 10 harmonies, but it is still only theoretical data)

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POB doesn't factor the cooldown cap from what I can tell. You can check any Flame Golem POB tree. Throw in Haste, Vaal Haste, make it an impossible 7 or 8-link with Faster Casting, Minion Speed, and add Flesh Offering. The DPS counter will keep going up and up each time, well past the point where cooldown is clearly the bottleneck. That's why ticking the "Do your minions use Frenzy Charges" checkbox is sadly unreliable.

If you're not sure, just go with all Harmony.

Hey :)

Eminence is pretty tricky as I think Pob doesn't take cooldown in calculation. I don't usually recommend running them as theres little evidence about how they work. Harmonies however add damage for sure and make Golems almost immortal with ridiculous amount of HP regeneration.

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Finally have 75% resist chaos (thx chayula's presence), and god, it helps so much in incursions / temple ! <3

Hi :)

Gz on getting Chayula ^^

I'm also aiming to cap chaos res as chaos damage in temples at higher tiers is super high. Vaal Skeletons on storm burst setup are excellent at fishing those bigger chaos bombs.

I usually clear map until I have vaal skels ready. Then I enter incursion and immediately fire Vaal Skels as changing area wont empty souls. They give so many targets that I can easily survive few first seconds at which time Golems clear enough to move safely ;)

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Okay, now I like discussing mechanics and testing and all, but this is getting a little silly. I try to back statements up with numbers or video/proof. But it seems like every time I bring some data, you come back with strange speculation like "moving targets" (which btw also affects Flame Golems, TVs, SGs, etc., not just Lightning Golems) or stuff like this:

Hello :)

Videos are all good proof. I'm just talking about my own experience of when I last tested Lightning Golems. Phoenix pretty much flew over full stack of orbs and Golems had cast them all over at new place. It's true that TVs have same problem, but Flame Golems can keep DPS up while they relocate. Lightning Golems have to either fire projectiles or cast orbs.

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Lightning Golems love tight packs just as much as Split Arrow Rangers (e.g. a lot). Anybody that plays Lightning Golems for a decent amount of time would know this. LGs don't have the typical "splat" type AOE. But if you build them right, they have decent AOE in their own style. Pierce, as you probably know, allows up to 5 targets to be hit with a single projectile. Here's a video example of Chayula Breachstone (before the Elementalist buffs; 6 golems max).

I don't want to sound harsh, but please reserve judgement on a skill until you actually play it. Honestly, try playing Elementalist for a league, not just "testing" in a Tabula for a weekend or something. It doesn't even have to be Lightning. I honestly don't care what type is the "best". I play all types. I just want to see better, more accurate info.

I have tried all Golem types and actually lost tons of currency trying to make them viable (most hogs were chaos and stone). Lightning Golems are in good second place right behind Flame Golems. I'll do longer test when I get some free time.

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So the comparison I posted early was not good enough? Note that for the pure golem run that I didn't even bring a Scorching Ray setup in a Burning helm and it still put out the same DPS as the Golem+Spectre mix. I do encourage testing, but as I pointed out with the numbers earlier, I highly doubt Combustion will significantly change the result.

Comparison was good, but Flame Golems got some boost after the video. Combustion really boosts TVs damage by a ton. Especially when using Necro and 4x Specs. I have never seen as fast kill times wiht my other variants with Phoenix as with 4+4 Necro using Combustion.

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Not sure. I'll see when it comes out. At the moment, I would say there's not much I can do except slot Penetration. At the same time, I think Lightning does plenty of damage even without EE. Anyway, I can't control what GGG does. They seem to be focused more on fire-based abilities. Elder/Shaper items synergize poorly with non-Flame golems. Chance to Ignite was upgraded to Combustion, but equivalent Chance to Shock/Freeze gems don't exist. Shock stacks got deleted. Shock effect on bosses tends to be bad unless you're Elementalist. etc. etc.

Will deal with that when it comes up though. I'm curious why this EE/Lightning Golem thing even matters? The discussion (I thought) was whether Spectres are worth it or not as Elementalist. I don't care what people think is the "best" golem. I'm just pointing out what I think is inaccurate. How about we avoid turning this into a Flame vs. Lightning debate?

Sorry, If I was bit overprotective. I'm wasn't sure what point of posting was at that point and it started to feel like old flame vs lightning topic. With Elementalist TVs are great boost to damage, but will most likely die in Uber Elder fight. However at other boss fights I have never had any problems with them and they add damage by their own and lowering enemies fire res. This will be even more relevant after EE nerf.

I wish GGG would add similar gems for cold and lightning for equality. There is no cold channeling skill yet, etc so balancing elements might not be very high on GGGs priority list.

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If you're doing it because you enjoy testing and want to learn more, sure, go for it. But if it's not something you really enjoy, then maybe don't bother?

Np, I love testing :)

Lightning Golems are my next project after Chaos and Stone Golems proved to be endless currency sinks with no benefits.

I originally turned for Specters after other Golems than fire and lightning turned out to be lacking.

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I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying it might not work effectively. It might sound counter-intuitive, but for the endgame bosses, it's actually situationally better for the summoner to have aggro. That way you can bait or at least better predict the next attack. If the boss randomly decides to target the minion and happens to (un)luckily aim where you were planning to move, then you might be eating a significant chunk of damage.

Also, like I said earlier, if you're willing to spend a gem slot for Taunt, why wouldn't you just use something more guaranteed aka Decoy Totem? That way you wouldn't have to spend a jewel slot/affix on RNG. That's what I did in Abyss League for a while and it was fine for what it was. I'm not sure why I would pick Chance to Taunt over the other better (imo) suffixes.

(And again with the random criticism of Lightning Golems? When the same criticism applies to Flame? sigh... FYI, if I was forced to pick one of the Minions have Chance to x/y/z mods, it would be Hinder, since it synergizes better. No need to burn a gem slot to make it viable. I'm surprised you wouldn't either, considering your build emphasizes slowing enemies down so much.)

I have pretty bad experience with Decoy Totem after GGG nerfed it years ago. It seems like multiple targets (vaal skels) + taunt are better than 1x target + taunt. Gaurdians don't feel to even slow down at Decoy totem but swarm of minions seems to do the trick.

Sorry if it felt critical as it wasn't my purpose.

Hinder is great also, but Animate Guardian already has it and I don't think it stacks. Aspect of Spider and AGs hinder don't also seem to stack.

I enjoy reading you posts and you were one of the people who originally talked me over to try Elementalist. I wish to continue talking about Golems, but TV specs are extremely hard to compare as Pob still doesn't have any hard numbers on them. It's still "my feel vs your feel" when talking about TVs so I can't really back it up with facts and I don't think it's possible to make counter arguments from boss kill videos.

I think that we will get better discussion of I try your build in full and you mine. Want to do the cross-test? ;)

Well, I think it's more of a math problem than a "feel" issue, but anyway, I typed way more than I intended and was not as nice as I could have been. My apologies. I'm going to avoid posting for a bit.

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tomatopotato wrote:

Well, I think it's more of a math problem than a "feel" issue, but anyway, I typed way more than I intended and was not as nice as I could have been. My apologies. I'm going to avoid posting for a bit.

Hey :)

Np, all is good! ;)

Let's continue later then. I look forward if we can do cross-test sometime later and compare results. Your build has some amazing clear time, so will be fun to test it.

First of all I must say this build is so well explained that im ashamed of asking help but i've wasted a good 2 hours trying to figure it out.

Can't get "How to run Discipline and 2x Curses simultaneously" even though I have everything as specified. I noticed Blasphemy support says 35% mana reserve but I feel that it uses more than that. If someone could look at my char in the Incursion league and send me a PM or write here what i'm missing that would be great.
My mana is at 277/926 while running discipline + chains

Lastly, Im pushing this build till the end of the season.

my char : https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/OGNolan/characters

Having a bit of trouble spectres seem to die way too easily at the moment and the 4 flame golems don't see to be doing as much damage as they should especially in parties. Can anyone check my gear/ skills/ gems for incursion league and offer advice? about to swap flesh offering for bone offering for more quality of life less dieing and get rid of vaal skelly for a vaal haste.
Using discipline and blasphemy with ele weakness with temporal chains.

For Ognolan:

This profile tab has been set to private or you the lack the permissions to view it.
please fix and we can assist.


Fyi I'd get all ur gems corrupted as harmonies are cheap.
some great mods like no corrupted blood no maim no silence etc

and reduced reserved mana 1% 6-8 of those and youll be a happy camper but to your mana issue.

I run ele weakness temp chains with blasphemy and discipline.
I have the nodes as well.

My maximum mana is 1250. 1188 reserved and 62 mana free to cast. Perhaps you need a few mana reduced reserved gems or more mana pool? (gear/intelligence/mana)

I hope this helps!

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OGNolan wrote:

First of all I must say this build is so well explained that im ashamed of asking help but i've wasted a good 2 hours trying to figure it out.

Can't get "How to run Discipline and 2x Curses simultaneously" even though I have everything as specified. I noticed Blasphemy support says 35% mana reserve but I feel that it uses more than that. If someone could look at my char in the Incursion league and send me a PM or write here what i'm missing that would be great.
My mana is at 277/926 while running discipline + chains

Lastly, Im pushing this build till the end of the season.

my char : https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/OGNolan/characters

"

For Ognolan:

This profile tab has been set to private or you the lack the permissions to view it.
please fix and we can assist.


Fyi I'd get all ur gems corrupted as harmonies are cheap.
some great mods like no corrupted blood no maim no silence etc

and reduced reserved mana 1% 6-8 of those and youll be a happy camper but to your mana issue.

I run ele weakness temp chains with blasphemy and discipline.
I have the nodes as well.

My maximum mana is 1250. 1188 reserved and 62 mana free to cast. Perhaps you need a few mana reduced reserved gems or more mana pool? (gear/intelligence/mana)

I hope this helps!

Thanks for support ^^

Guide is also quite long and GGG provides no real search function so it's easy to lose some info. It's mentioned in FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS -> HOW TO RUN 3X AURAS SIMULTANEOUSLY?

Yep, profile is set to private so cant see characters at all.

For getting enough mana, you need "Leadership" and "Sovereignty" with 2x mana reserved reducement nodes before it. This is enough to run Discipline solo and curses with Enhance.

Please make sure that no support gem is affecting Discipline as thats usually the culprit. Supports will raise Disciplines mana reservation but not give real benefit.

"

Having a bit of trouble spectres seem to die way too easily at the moment and the 4 flame golems don't see to be doing as much damage as they should especially in parties. Can anyone check my gear/ skills/ gems for incursion league and offer advice? about to swap flesh offering for bone offering for more quality of life less dieing and get rid of vaal skelly for a vaal haste.
Using discipline and blasphemy with ele weakness with temporal chains

.

Hey :)

You are losing quite a lot of Flame Golems damage by using Vis Mortis. Each level gives Flame Golems about 10% more DPS and HP, so and higher levels matter more than earlier. Skin of the Loyal gives +2 levels by itself and helps a lot with clear-speed.

Vis Mortis however gives more single target damage as you get extra Specter so it works as well but in different situations. This league clear-speed and mob killing seems to be more important so Sotl seems to be stronger choice.

Vis also lowers minion HP, so you need to make sure that they have enough desenses.
- You can drop shield and take Necro Aegis with Viclarios Charity to both boost their DPS and survival
- You can run Bone Offering for extra block
- Make sure vaal skels are loaded when you enter incursion. Fire it immediately once you enter and swarm of minions will take enough aggro for you and minions to survive.
- Have you tried raising Specters from t15+ maps? (You can lurk global channels for Shaper portals and raise max level Specs there. They are practically immortal at that point.)
- Try to cast normal skels before entering new part of screen. Even 1x skels will draw aggro and you can follow with other minions safely.

Please post again if you keep getting problems with minions dying and ill try to figure out new ways to keep em alive ;)