PVP RULES....

because cwdt-flame dash gives a chacne to melee have a competition with offscreeners, it shouldnt be considered as legit.

while giving melee some life, it is also giving more power to EA and miners.

If you need Cwdt Flame Dash you suck.

If you see it as a solution to some of the more ridiculous issues in PvP, those should be rectified rather then having a crutch in the form of auto movement.

Yeah, cwdt/fd is e-z mode.

A legit use of cwdt in pvp is for non-damage dealing, non-automovement gems. Curses, phase run, blood rage - crap like that. Curses because blasphemy exists and curse-on-hit exists. There's so many options already. Phase run because at least the player still has to manually run to get where they want to go.

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Head_Less wrote:

Even if you kite them, they will pop right on your face.

This describes one of the reasons I love cwdt+fd so much, it's a cheap way to atleast get close to a kiter that doesn't require a purpose build character.

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Head_Less wrote:

It's very hard to manage as a melee those casters cwdt+fd, unless you have 5 billions aoe lacerate.

Cwdt+fd would admittedly be broken against skills like double strike or heavy strike, but those are irrelevant in pvp anyhow, performance against skills like lacerate and blade flurry is what needs to be considered, and those builds are better with more aoe. Melee melee is irrelevant, ranged melee isn't.

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Rupenus wrote:

because cwdt-flame dash gives a chacne to melee have a competition with offscreeners, it shouldnt be considered as legit.

while giving melee some life, it is also giving more power to EA and miners.

Does the first sentence contain a typo? Cause if I read it correct, it's a positive statement in favor of cwdt+fd. Cwd+fd has in the past allowed me to more successfully fight some ea players and some mining setups. Especially against gc it does well.

It seems like I'm pretty alone with my opinion though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NMOllP3eN4

you can smoke mines + use cwdt+deto mines too for dealing with instagib damage.
the way i have beaten best EA's as LA was thanks to cwdt flame dash, but as i said, -forget the meta, if there will be a fix for pvp, it has to be a complete overhaul of pvp mechanics- anything that makes micromanagement and initiation easier / turns pvp out into a right click fest are not legit. they shouldn't be.

I honestly despise any use of movement spells with CWDT because it just promotes laziness and goes against what PVP should be about, which is skill and creativity. Laziness is a big factor in some peoples' builds, and success from it just needs to go. Then again, I do love watching people try to escape icestorm, only to be pulled back into it over and over. I think a rule should be just up to a couple of CWDT gems in your items, not just rely on it. PVP with zero input from a player is just not okay, and it's pathetic. Player-versus-player implies BOTH players are actually DOING SHIT, not just one person putting in all the effort while the other just stands there, maybe mashing flasks every now and then.

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Dethklok wrote:

What if we said you could only use flasks that are obtainable in the current temp leagues (aside from zerphies which should be banned all together) do you think that would be enough for people to start using other classes?

I think Pathfinder would need a special rule for that, maybe a maximum of 2 unique flasks. Though that'd be difficult to prove they're following that rule without having them stream their matches; not everyone has the resources available to them, and it's not like we're organizing huge events where you win money or some shit. Guess we just have to hope someone's actually got a bit of dignity to follow some rules to make things enjoyable and somewhat fair.
As for the flasks themselves, I think there's really only a few annoying flasks we really have to endure, those being Zerphi's, Dying Sun, legacy Rumi's, and Legacy Vinktar's. I think having players use current, non-legacy versions of the latter two would probably be a bit more fair, but I have no idea what to do about the former two.
I mean, based on my experience with D2 pvp (really none whatsoever, but I enjoyed watching it when I was a kid), you'd get griped at for using pots, especially full rejuvs. But PVP in this game would be almost impossible given the build variety and power creep. Never thought flasks would be the new thing to be problematic in PVP, tbh.

Seems like most people are against automated movement skills so what if we just said you can use lvl 1 trigger gems as long as they aren't linked to movement skills? Or should they be banned all together?

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ocd_xana wrote:

I think Pathfinder would need a special rule for that, maybe a maximum of 2 unique flasks. Though that'd be difficult to prove they're following that rule without having them stream their matches; not everyone has the resources available to them, and it's not like we're organizing huge events where you win money or some shit. Guess we just have to hope someone's actually got a bit of dignity to follow some rules to make things enjoyable and somewhat fair.

If we had some people who wouldn't mind being judges for matches they could record or just check out profiles while 2 people are fighting. Another thing we could do is set PvP times like when leo resets or something, everyone meet in sarn and we can organize matches that people can spectate. I think EU would need a better time than leo reset though. But we need some way to record results and give people scores on the community run ladder ect.

Trigger gems should only be used as Ahfack noted. To proc curses first and foremost, then things like Blood Rage, Phase Run, chill even. Utility, as in saving yourself a few keybinds and the stress of manually recasting redundant abilities i.e curses. Anything beyond that should of never been an option especially not Lightning Warp and Flame Dash, fuck may as well let people link Leap Slam, Whirling Blades and Flicker too for maximum stupidity. I made a post yeeeeeears ago how this game is starting to simulate hacked Diablo2 and it hasn't proven me wrong. Let people link Town Portal to Cwdt lvl 1 so each time they get hit they auto tp to town then back into the field.

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MullaXul wrote:

link Town Portal to Cwdt lvl 1 so each time they get hit they auto tp to town then back into the field.

Guaran-fucking-tee you Grieviel would do that so he could refill his belt full of legacy Rumi's with even less effort, the cheap, lazy fuck.

I absolutely detest lazy builds like the one used by Atheanasirus, almost no actual input, save for flasks and moving. There's a video of me fighting against him (just search "rlowe vs aegis", ignore my voice, I was sick). It's fucking pathetic that shit-ass lazy builds like that are even allowed to exist and thrive.

Man if only there was a way to enforce these rules..

But let's get real, a lot of people are just going to be lazy because they play to "win", not for fun, so they go for whats OP as shit now, then when whats OP and requires no effort now is getting nerfed they just go to the next 0 effort build.. those kinds of people really suck the life out of everything

GGG did mention at one time, long ago, that theyd make private leagues available, lets hope they stick to that and a few of the better earning pvp-ers would buy one and we could do our thing there, there you could apply rules, and whoever wants to be a dick gets kicked.