[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

So this is purely theory crafting buuuuuuuut... What would the consensus be on equipping Kaom's Heart and going with a 4L cyclone, dumping AW Totem altogether? To be honest I essentially never use AW Totem outside of rare circumstances. I almost feel the increased survivability would be far more valuable than the damage carcass jack or a 6L cyclone provide. Plus you get the 25% increased fire damage.

Just a thought. Any takers?

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Luuthian wrote:

So this is purely theory crafting buuuuuuuut... What would the consensus be on equipping Kaom's Heart and going with a 4L cyclone, dumping AW Totem altogether? To be honest I essentially never use AW Totem outside of rare circumstances. I almost feel the increased survivability would be far more valuable than the damage carcass jack or a 6L cyclone provide. Plus you get the 25% increased fire damage.

Just a thought. Any takers?

totem wont trigger Flame Burst. Only melee hit trigger. So it doesnt matter what totem is, high aps cyclone is nessecary

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Hitoseijuro wrote:

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Lunartuna wrote:

Tell me if this is right... 20,892 x 9 projectiles x 4.37 aps = 821,682 DPS?????????

APS doesnt affect Molten Burst.

The only APS that is relevant is the one on Cyclone which scales your average procs per cyclone use. If you're at 5 APS on cyclone, youll average 1 proc per cyclone use ,if you have 10 ASP on Cyclone(not uncommon with good gear + Bronn)then youll average 2 procs per cyclone use.

Your 20k Molten burst(tool tip) = roughly 59000-60000 x9 = 540000k
And yes all buffs/debuffs are taken into account. On Bosses the damage is closer to 32000 x 9(294k).

cyclone hits twice per attack, so 10aps means 20 hits, then 4 proc? just assume.

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pantxike wrote:

cyclone hits twice per attack, so 10aps means 20 hits, then 4 proc? just assume.

Not entirely. Cyclone doesn't "hit" twice per attack. It deals "area of effect damage" twice per spin. The spin is the actual hit, because you are using a 2 handed weapon, it only hits once per spin. If you were dual wielding, you would hit twice per spin thus procing more molten bursts but then you wouldn't be able to use the axe so that would make a moot point.

This is why Kira emphasizes on attack speed for Cyclone because Cyclone's spins(hits) are affected by the amount of attack speed you have and while attack speed does not affect your molten burst damage directly, it does affect it "indirectly" by increasing the average procs per Cyclone use due to more hits.



@Lunartuna

You're roughly at 8.27 APS on Cyclone, it's not difficult to see 2 procs per second on average give or take, there is a .15 of a second cool down per proc and you're hitting more than 1 mob at a time.

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Hitoseijuro wrote:

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pantxike wrote:

cyclone hits twice per attack, so 10aps means 20 hits, then 4 proc? just assume.

Not entirely. Cyclone doesn't "hit" twice per attack. It deals "area of effect damage" twice per spin. The spin is the actual hit, because you are using a 2 handed weapon, it only hits once per spin. If you were dual wielding, you would hit twice per spin thus procing more molten bursts but then you wouldn't be able to use the axe so that would make a moot point.

This is why Kira emphasizes on attack speed for Cyclone because Cyclone's spins(hits) are affected by the amount of attack speed you have and while attack speed does not affect your molten burst damage directly, it does affect it "indirectly" by increasing the average procs per Cyclone use due to more hits.



@Lunartuna

You're roughly at 8.27 APS on Cyclone, it's not difficult to see 2 procs per second on average give or take, there is a .15 of a second cool down per proc and you're hitting more than 1 mob at a time.

oh yeah, i got it. but one thing i have a different opinion. i think increased attack speed is not always better than increasd damage(physical/elemental).
as in the Lunartuna's post, he got 562% increased attack speed. so 6.6% increased attack speed give him 1% more overall dps. if he got 600% increased damage from tree and gear, 7% increased damage will give him 1% more over all dps.
i mean there is a balance, between damage & speed. its like two sides of a rectangle.
but as Flame burst is a proc skill, more attack speed make it more stable though.

pls say me, why i have little damage and fasting dead.
yes i only 69lvl now but i have 3k hp and 75%+ resist and low armor, and only 1 lab ))

What I need to change first of all?

have only 80 chaos.

love this build

but there 2 questions - why ignore chaos resist and why no1 takes "Ramparts nodes"

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Hitoseijuro wrote:

@Lunartuna

You're roughly at 8.27 APS on Cyclone, it's not difficult to see 2 procs per second on average give or take, there is a .15 of a second cool down per proc and you're hitting more than 1 mob at a time.

If the travel time for one set of molten balls is roughly 1 second, the screen shot shows at least 3 procs in a second, possibly 4. 3-4 are all traveling at the same time/second. Definitely more than 2 attacks per second from motlen.

If the CD for molten is .15 then cant molten proc a max of 6.6 times per second if there is that many hits on mobs? Surely cyclone is hitting enough times smashing through a pack of say 10-15 mobs to hit close to that 6.6? At least 4 you would think depending on how close the hits on mobs are close to the molten CD.

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Lunartuna wrote:

Definitely more than 2 attacks per second from motlen.

Molten Burst does not attack, therefore there is no attack per second. Molten burst is a proc mechanic, in other words a random occurrence. When your axe hits something, you have a 20% chance to get molten burst or nothing, and nothing else will change that occurrence.

Attacks per second make no sense for Molten Burst, because as I stated, molten burst is not attacking, it is "activating".

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Lunartuna wrote:

If the CD for molten is .15 then cant molten proc a max of 6.6 times per second if there is that many hits on mobs? Surely cyclone is hitting enough times smashing through a pack of say 10-15 mobs to hit close to that 6.6? At least 4 you would think depending on how close the hits on mobs are close to the molten CD.

Yes and no. 6.6 times seems plausible. However that would be if it was at a 100% success rate and I think there is some interactions with the way the hit and the activation work with how the game "checks" for it when you start accounting for several monsters.If you run into a pack of 30 mobs or so, you should be seeing 6.6 procs all the time, but thats not the case. This could also be that the mobs are dying way too quickly before all hits of Cyclone are hitting and also dying to Cyclone's 2nd wave damage per hit.


While this is a bit tricky its also a bit irrelevant because 95% of the time the mobs are dead before molten burst lands on them anyhow outside of high % HP mods for mobs.

Bosses are the ones that will soak up the Molten burst damage and those are usually alone, meaning you wont be seeing 6.6 Molten bursts per second(its possible, but the probability is very very very low).

I am curious if anyone has tried this form of the build but instead of Ngamahu, using duel wield weapons that have Essence of Hysteria?

I am only curious! I was looking around and no one really mentioned it. I know its a 10% proc, but duel wield would make it 20%. Probably isn't that strong and cant benefit from projectile damage or something.