[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

Hey, I played this in a previous league and am thinking about playing it again for 3.3

What is the reason for the Worm flask?

Also, after reading the pros and cons in the ascendancy list, I feel like Slayer still sounds like the best choice, despite the Champ's prowess since 3.2.

Would you agree? I mean, Cyclone grants stun immunity, Slayer grants bleed immunity while leeching and overleech. Champion might have more damage from his 100% hit chance that allows for an easy Ele Overload integration..

edit: I just plugged my Slayer into PoB and it appears that between Worthy Foe, Elemental Overload and a sixth damage link on Cyclone, the Champ doesn't only deal "slightly" more damage.
Sure, Slayer could also get Ele Overload, but that has a cost whereas it's free for the Champ.

Am I missing anything?

I think the worms are for the extra 20% damage you get from headsman. Just insures you have something to kill when on single targets like bosses.

"

Basett wrote:

I think the worms are for the extra 20% damage you get from headsman. Just insures you have something to kill when on single targets like bosses.

I see, thanks. Must've changed with the 3.2 patch for I didn't have that flask before.

But this means, for a Champ (which I'm leaning towards now), it is pointless..(?)

I've loaded both lvl90 EO trees into the PoB of my old Slayer and with his gear (not accuracy focused obviously), Champ is miles ahead in damage. Culling can't make up for that gap.

"

Solmyr77 wrote:

Hey, I played this in a previous league and am thinking about playing it again for 3.3

What is the reason for the Worm flask?

Also, after reading the pros and cons in the ascendancy list, I feel like Slayer still sounds like the best choice, despite the Champ's prowess since 3.2.

Would you agree? I mean, Cyclone grants stun immunity, Slayer grants bleed immunity while leeching and overleech. Champion might have more damage from his 100% hit chance that allows for an easy Ele Overload integration..

edit: I just plugged my Slayer into PoB and it appears that between Worthy Foe, Elemental Overload and a sixth damage link on Cyclone, the Champ doesn't only deal "slightly" more damage.
Sure, Slayer could also get Ele Overload, but that has a cost whereas it's free for the Champ.

Am I missing anything?

As mentioned by @Basett, Writhing flask is to proc Headsman (Slayer ascendancy).

Champion has better EO damage output but Slayer has better survivability (especially if you take up Vaal Pact).

And don't forget, there is also Chieftain and Scion.

Among all classes, Chieftain has the highest EO damage and cheapest to gear.

Pretty much comes down to your choices.

"

Solmyr77 wrote:

I see, thanks. Must've changed with the 3.2 patch for I didn't have that flask before.

But this means, for a Champ (which I'm leaning towards now), it is pointless..(?)

I've loaded both lvl90 EO trees into the PoB of my old Slayer and with his gear (not accuracy focused obviously), Champ is miles ahead in damage. Culling can't make up for that gap.

Writhing flask will not be useful for Champion and you can replace that with an anti-freeze quick silver flask + anti-bleed 50% instant heal life flask instead.

For accurate comparison between Slayer and Champion, you will definitely want to use accuracy gears on your Slayer. The chance to hit is very important for EO builds. :)

Hi there. This will be the first time I ever get to play the day the league starts and decided I want to use this build to do an uber lab farmer, and get it up and running ASAP.

I have one question though, I understand that the Ngamahu axe is a mandatory unique, but in the first few days (if I check price histories) it seems to be very expensive. How do you normally get yourself one by the time you get to uber lab, or can uber lab be run without it (initially)?

Thanks!

"

In3vitability wrote:

Hi there. This will be the first time I ever get to play the day the league starts and decided I want to use this build to do an uber lab farmer, and get it up and running ASAP.

I have one question though, I understand that the Ngamahu axe is a mandatory unique, but in the first few days (if I check price histories) it seems to be very expensive. How do you normally get yourself one by the time you get to uber lab, or can uber lab be run without it (initially)?

Thanks!

You can certainly run Uber lab without the axe but it will take more time to beat Izaro.

At the start of the league, Ngamahu will cost around 50 to 80 chaos (Bestiary was an exception as I remember the price of the axe dropped to around 20c in just a few days), depending on the rolls. As league progresses, it will drop to single digit price range.

Trading currencies (i.e. fusing, jewelers, alchemies, etc) for chaos orbs will greatly help to gather the currencies you need to acquire the axe in first 2 days.

Some lucky drops that you can trade away for chaos will certainly help too.

And don't forget the chaos vendor recipe.

TLDR: use Combustion Support now instead of Elemental Focus

For 3.3 the support gem "Chance to Ignite Support" has been changed to "Combustion Support". It now offers 19% fire pen IN ADDITION at level 20.

So when comparing Elemental Focus to Combustion, we have:

Elemental Focus: 49% more dmg, 10% inc dmg (quality), no DoT burning
Combustion: 29% more dmg, 19% pen, 10% inc dmg (quality), 49% chance to ignite

As 29% more dmg + 19% pen will always be at least as good as 48% more dmg (and better in most situations and much better against bosses) and as we are getting free DoT with 49% chance to ignite to burn bosses to ash, I think Combustion is now strictly superior to Elemental Focus.

This should be true for all pure fire builds.

Or am I missing something?

"

Archinquisitor wrote:

TLDR: use Combustion Support now instead of Elemental Focus

For 3.3 the support gem "Chance to Ignite Support" has been changed to "Combustion Support". It now offers 19% fire pen IN ADDITION at level 20.

So when comparing Elemental Focus to Combustion, we have:

Elemental Focus: 49% more dmg, 10% inc dmg (quality), no DoT burning
Combustion: 29% more dmg, 19% pen, 10% inc dmg (quality), 49% chance to ignite

As 29% more dmg + 19% pen will always be at least as good as 48% more dmg (and better in most situations and much better against bosses) and as we are getting free DoT with 49% chance to ignite to burn bosses to ash, I think Combustion is now strictly superior to Elemental Focus.

This should be true for all pure fire builds.

Or am I missing something?

Pretty much the case. Combustion will work better on boss but do lower damage on regular mobs.

However, we are only concern about boss over here. :)

I am waiting for POB to be updated with the new gems to get a more conclusive figure with the gem swap.

Ascendancy
I'm still debating my choice of ascendancy. Could you elaborate and provide trees for the 4 choices you present? I don't even know, which second subclass to pick for the Scion (Slayer is obvious).

I've done some PoB work yesterday with your Champ and Slayer trees and I can't find how the Slayer would come reasonably close in damage. (I treat super cull as a 25% more multiplier, which reflects the mathematical contribution but not the factor that the last 20% are worth more than any other 20% in a endboss scenario.)

What is the selling point of the Chieftain? Would he make use of non-fire damage that the other classes can't due to Avatar of Fire? If it's only that he doesn't need Xoph's Blood, I wouldn't care. The keystone is 3 points away from EO.

About the Champ, I dislike that his ascendancy defenses are largely irrelevant: Stun immunity is provided by Cyclone itself, Life reg is canceled out by Vaal Pact and I don't see the point to those 1k armor and evasion in the endgame.

On the other hand there is overleech, which I just cannot judge properly.

Maybe it's clever to start out as Champ and regret into Slayer eventually if either the survivability feels bad or the gear reaches a level (bonus accuracy on everything) that allows the Slayer to close the damage gap..?

Combustion
I also expected it to become an easy choice over Ele Focus, but that depends on Ignite being useful for us. The Ignite dps figures in PoB looked like garbage yesterday, which may be true. There's mechanically only 1 instance of Ignite on a mob at any given time and this deals 50% of the damage of 1 hit per second. So to make use of it, you'd want to deliver slow, heavy hits, which we don't.
Also, you can't just treat 19% pen as 19% more. It's equal at 0% mob resist (after factoring other sources of pen), better at a positive resist value and weaker when the resist is already below 0.

i don't understand here
why i need level gem?
Cast When Damage Taken: 1
Immortal Call: 3