[2.5] Dela's Beastmode CI Regen Inquisitor ALL CONTENT

Wow that is some post. I hope I can answer tbh. Im really not too good with math! and I suck at doin these quote things lol! I get it wrong every damn time.

Ok so;

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Got it. And ignite, as I understand it, is 20% of the initial hit damage per second for 4 seconds (before modifiers)? And Temporal Chains increases this duration by another 40%?

AS I understand it, the base duration of an ignite is 4 secs, burning for a 20% dmg of the initial hit. Then we have elemental focus, which adds another 10% to that; which makes it 4x1.10 = 4.4 secs. And then we have the Temp Chains which makes it expire slower (48% slower) so that will be like 4x1.10 / 0.48 = which makes it 9.17 or so. From a mechanics thread on the forum:

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Burning lasts 4 seconds, and the amount of damage over time is 1/3 of the fire damage dealt per second. So a total of 4/3 of the original damage, over 4 seconds.
Multiple instances of burning can be applied at the same time, however the damage from them does not stack. Only the highest-damage burning effect that is on a creature at any one time will deal damage.

Onto scaling dmg;

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This isn't what the wiki says, because the "Modifiers to spell damage applies to this skill's damage over time" means that ignites count - according to the Wiki. Additionally the spell damage "double dips" into the Cold degen, which is unaffected by the cold-to-fire conversion and applies as usual. So spell damage seems key to scale - have I got that all right?

OK so here is what the Wiki says; The following modifiers will directly affect the damage of Ignite; note that some of these modifiers apply only to the Ignite whereas some may also apply to the skill that triggered it:

Damage over Time modifiers
Burning Damage modifiers
Damage modifiers
Fire Damage modifiers
Elemental Damage modifiers
Area Damage modifiers if applied by an Area skill
Projectile Damage modifiers if applied by a Projectile skill
Trap Damage modifiers if applied by a Trap
Mine Damage modifiers if applied by a Mine
Totem Damage modifiers if applied by a Totem
Minion Damage modifiers if applied by a Minion

Ignite is not a spell. I maybe be wrong, but as I understand spell dmg only scales ignite from the initial hit and NOT the ignite it self after its been scaled by the initial hit bonus dmg allrdy. It only scales the spells DOT dmg, not the ignite that it makes. Those are not the same thing. Which franky we dont care about, because it does very little dmg, compared to everything else.

When we scale the ignite it is like this, as far as I can gather: We scale from AREA notes, because we apply dmg with an AOE tagged skill, Fire, elemental dmg, dmg over time.
NOT spell dmg, and NOT cold dmg. Spell dmg scales it only because the HIT gets higher, but not the ignite after the bonus like I mentioned, and COLD dmg also only scales the initial hit, there as the higher ignite, but again no bonus to ignite it self.
I hope this is right. Atleast this is what ive been able to find about it.
And yes you can add light dmg to attacks, but I always use my orb so I try to avoid any extra dmg types, as to not fuck anything up.

Yes the cold dot is still there when we convert, at it doesnt get converted to fire dmg. If we use avatar of fire we lose that yes, but that isnt alot of our dmg. We mainly skip this because we want to lower the ress of anything we try to kill as much as humanly possible, and we cant do that if we use avatar of fire, because we cannot proc EE.
Try not to focus too much on the COLD dot, as it generally really bad dmg because we dont scale it. Its like 7k when we do 100k ignite or so, to put things into perspective.

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So this is another problem. Because of the now-90% previously-100% conversion issue, it means that if we use EE and DON'T set up lightning damage first, we are giving mobs a free 25% boost to resistances on BOTH fire AND cold, because our initial hit is now both elements (when before it was just fire). This is a bummer; however, hopefully our damage can scale to the point where white/blue/some rare mobs die anyway, and we can EE for rares/uniques/bosses.

This was always this way actually. We might get +fire and cold res now if we dont use lightning skill first, as to where we got only +fire before, but this does not make a difference. Because you want to EE mobs before hitting them anyway. We could kill most things without EE before and we prolly still can. But when you charge in (without light on attack to apply EE) the first hit will do full dmg because the EE effect only activates AFTER the first hit. So charge, vortex is fine. Or charge, orb, vortex. The latter will do more dmg, because you have the light to proc -fire/-cold before you vortex.

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If I was feeling really mean I'd ask how all this is affected by fire pen.
Ok, I'm feeling mean. How is this all affected by fire pen?

Okay so here is what I found on this;

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When a target is struck by a hit with resistance penetration, that target's effective resistance is reduced for determining the amount of damage dealt by the hit. Resistance penetration does not modify the target's resistance or maximum resistance stats.

With the curse notes and lvl 20 flammability, EE proc we can lower a normal white mob to a resistance of -108 at max level (84). And then we get to do more dmg because we use Augury of Penitence, which is x1.16. And then the penetration works as a "lower resistance extra the moment you hit something". It all increases our dmg alot. I don't know how to calculate this though. There is a formula on the wiki, I just dont know how to use it.

It also says:

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It can be shown that resistance penetration is more effective in terms of damage dealt against targets with higher resistances.

Again, there is a formula for this, which you can use, if you know how to :)

On the topic of hexproof maps; that is indeed a fine idea, use what you want tbh. Im too lazy so I dont bother with it.


On the topic on the AOE. I again have to pass, Im not great with math. As I see it I would say use what you want tbh. I atm feel that I need the AOE gem, even with 2 aoe clusters, it just feels better. And if we dont use it, what will we swap conc effect for? Im not sure. We dont want to run it all the time atleast. Maybe faster casting is our only option, instead of AOE gem, if we wanna use conc on boss. Ill try this out. To be clear, they FUCKED us on this Aoe change, I dont understand why vortex has to be so much smaller than, fx Shock Nova..

@Piza14;

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is there a reason that nobody suggests picking up essence surge ?

- This is simply because we dont need it. Its 4 pts wasted essentially, because we build with Zealots Oaths so we focus on regen. Essence Surge is for recharge and NOT regen. Theyre two different things :) You can use it, but it will cost you something else, and shield recharge cannot start unless youre out of combat, so to speak, havnt been hit for a lil while.

Phew. I hope this helps guys.

On my phone so can't do major quote nesting this time :)

Thanks for the reply Leeown. I'd like us both to check one thing please. You quoted reference spell damage on ignite, and I get that, but this is 't just ignite it is Vortex. Remember that a key characteristic of Vortex is that spell damage double-dips the damage over time effects.

According to the wiki skill entry for Vortex, that is ALL damage over time effects that Vortex is responsible for. And so, that includes Ignite.

Therefore, if ignite is affected by spell damage, then spell damage is better to scale than fire.

But I do wonder if Cold is better than fire too ;)

Simple example:

If cold is 100 and fire is 50, then you convert cold to fire and get 150 for hit and 150 for ignite, and you also get the cold DoT at 100.
But if cold is 50 and fire is 100, then you convert cold to fire and still get 150 for hit and 159 for ignite, but 50 for the cold DoT.
Except we're using cold to fire, which adds a further cold double dip.

So...what's better to scale, cold or fire?

Youre actually right, this blows my mind. I missed that single line on the wiki. Hmm, well for the ignite, spell dmg = fire then. I know it gives a better cold dot, but that thing isnt worth much tbh. I would prefer scaling fire dmg, as it costs less pts with my specific tree.

About what is better to scale fire or cold Im atually not sure. But acording to my path of build it says that cold only gives 1/3 of the ignite dmg, that a fire/spell note of same value gives. So that does suggest that fire is alot better. I dont know the formula for this though. And since I dont care about the cold dot, that isnt a factor for me tbh. Even cold notes give very little to that.

Im testing without AOE gem atm, at it does actually seems fine without it now. But like I said, we kinda wanna swap conc for bosses, and not controlled dest or ignite chance.. No other support gem adds that kind of DPS, not even a lvl 4 empower. So atm im not sure what to use tbh if we were to not use aoe gem. Faster casting is an option for a blue socket to swap, but that doesnt make much difference, maybe easier to go in and out for dmg, and dodge, but that it. Then again if the AOE gem gives very little aswell its basicly whatever.

first of all- thanks for your answers.

if we increase our cold damage we automatically increase our fire damage the same. if we only increase our fire damage we dont increase the cold damage we deal (even it is not the biggest amount)- so increasing cold damage is more useful from this point of view. but if it is the correct thing to do in game--im not sure

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This is simply because we dont need it. Its 4 pts wasted essentially, because we build with Zealots Oaths so we focus on regen. Essence Surge is for recharge and NOT regen. Theyre two different things :) You can use it, but it will cost you something else, and shield recharge cannot start unless youre out of combat, so to speak, havnt been hit for a lil while.

the reason why we pick the beast fur shawl is its increased recharge, the build inventor said it is a regen multiplier as well. so in my opinion essence surge is a good thing to pick. or was he wrong? wiki doesnt give a great answer for me

По русски может кто объяснить, что изменить надо для играбельности?

Didn't they nerf double dipping as well or did I read the patch notes wrong

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piza14 wrote:

first of all- thanks for your answers.

if we increase our cold damage we automatically increase our fire damage the same. if we only increase our fire damage we dont increase the cold damage we deal (even it is not the biggest amount)- so increasing cold damage is more useful from this point of view. but if it is the correct thing to do in game--im not sure

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This is simply because we dont need it. Its 4 pts wasted essentially, because we build with Zealots Oaths so we focus on regen. Essence Surge is for recharge and NOT regen. Theyre two different things :) You can use it, but it will cost you something else, and shield recharge cannot start unless youre out of combat, so to speak, havnt been hit for a lil while.

the reason why we pick the beast fur shawl is its increased recharge, the build inventor said it is a regen multiplier as well. so in my opinion essence surge is a good thing to pick. or was he wrong? wiki doesnt give a great answer for me

I can only state what I can find. Maybe it is because the double dipping was nerf that the cold dmg notes arent worth it. Lets hope OP gets back soon, maybe he can share some light on this. Im sticking with stack elemental dmg, fire and spell dmg. That is what works best according to the data I can find.

Anyway about the Chest. Essence Surge and The Beast Fur Shawl, does not to the same thing. Chest gives increased Energy Shield Recovery rate, which affecs our ES Regen, and our recharge rate aswell, when it activates, and essence surge gives Shield Recharge rate only. These are two different things. Because we have Zealots Oath, the life regen % we get from tree now works with ES. The chest enhances this stats and boosts it alot. Regen is something that is always active. ES recharge rate is not. Like I mentioned, Recharge only starts when we hanvt been hit for a while. This build is about ES Regen, and not ES Recharge. So the Chest double dips basicly, and the Essence Surge isnt worth much for this build because we dont care about Recharge Rate, only our ES Regen.

How is the build holding up in uberlab? Do you still kill izaro as fast as on the videos? I really like the tankyness of this build in traps, so if the speed is the same I think I will run this build even only as uberlab runner =]

i apologize- i misread! thx for telling

Hey guys, question here!

Maybe I am missing something important, but I am not able to fully convert that Vortex cold initial damage to 100% fire. Currently I just have a 90% conversion (40% from Pyre Ring, 50% from Cold to Fire Support gem).

As far as I understand this is very relevant since currently my Vortex does fire + cold damage, triggering Elemental Equilibrium and granting +fire/cold resistence to the mobs....

Should I have two Pyre Rings after the changes on this 2.6.0, should I just rely on the Orb of Storms to proc EE or did I miss anything?