[2.5] Dela's Beastmode CI Regen Inquisitor ALL CONTENT

On a 5L with ring, you want vortex, AOE(if needed), ignite, controlled dest, and cold to fire.
6L will prolly be fire pen. I think we can hold off with fire pen until 6th link. If you dont feel you need the aoe gem I think I would go with pire pen and then for 6th link; Less duration, or rapid decay, they seem to give alot of ignite dmg. Empower is still an option, but the others seem to give more atleast on paper. Or ofc an Empower lvl 4, if you have one, it gives harder initial hits and alot of ignite too.

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nbriles2000 wrote:

So after pyres change, do we need to run that and cold to fire? What are the links for a 5L?
I'm not really sure how the damage conversation works

yes, so we get 90% conversion out of this.
i am currently leveling this build and i am level 58 so far. damage is totally ok - unbuffed 3.8k tooltip dps- with elemental overload 5.3k. seems fine for now and i kind of 1hit white mobs and it feels ok. at the moment i have spell echo, controlled destruction and cold to fire. on top of that i run flammability.

i never played vortex before so i cant say anything detailled about the AoE, but my FB Witch covered much more area.

wouldnt say i had problems so far but im not the best player and this isnt the easiest to start with i think. but it is still fun. i like the playstile.

cause i havent leveled an es char before and tried to allocate the passives straight forward how it was suggested for endgame. do u guys have any tips for es leveling? is it better to level as a life char and respec more later?

what about avatar of fire?

can you update the skill tree mate :)

While I'm playing this build this league, I've just realised how much I *don't* know about ele conversion, ignite, double-dipping, vortex damage mechanics, and EE effects.

Would someone knowledgeable please very kindly spend 5 minutes explaining to the rest of us how these factors influence damage? This would be really key to knowing how best to gear up.

As an example: I was running Added Lightning in my 4L while levelling (before access to core gems), and when I changed this for Chance to Ignite my tooltip damage went down massively (I can live with that...) but there also didn't seem to be a key increase in how fast mobs died (where's my combat dummy when I need it?).

Any help much appreciated.

Cheers!
A

So there is the build I will go with. I chose this route so I can take fire notes north of witch if I feel like I need them; www.poeurl.com/7SU .

Take DEX/STR notes if you need those. If you're arent into curses like me, skip the curse notes if you want. Jewel socket near CI is also good to grab if you want.

As for leveling you take life notes and not too many ES notes, as we cannot scale them very well, and then we respec out of them later on.

Shout if you want leveling trees; I can make some if you want, not that it would be the best way, but it would be how I did it.

Onto the dmg question:
@Altissimus, the tooltip in game isnt worth much, you wont be able to see how much dmg you actually do. This build scales a little slow, and very slow now that we got nerfed. But we want to focus on Elemental dmg, and which is elemental Notes on the tree. The reason being is, that elemental dmg adds to the initial fire dmg HIT and then the IGNITE it self. So if you have 10% ele dmg you do 10% of that elemental type dmg more on hit, and that makes the ignite stronger, but on top of that you get another 10% on the ignite it self, even after the initial hit scaled the ignite aswell. This means that we will get very high ignites later on as we stack elemental dmg. We cannot use spell dmg the same way, because it only scales the initial hit, and the ignite off the initial hit, so there is no bonus to the ignite from spell dmg other than from you hitting harder. I hope this makes sense. We also can scale the same way with fire and cold dmg. But because we convert to 90% we want +%fire dmg over %cold dmg, as far as I understand. Ok, now is where it gets tricky. WE do NOT want + flat dmg on anything, so + x-xcold, light or fire dmg to attacks and spell will fuck up Elemental Equilibrium "EE" for reference. Because we use Orb of storm, we want that to be PURE light dmg only. This is also why we dont use Avatar of Fire, because that would make your orb do only fire dmg. EE makes it so that the monster gets ANOTHER -50 fire resist from the moment it takes lightning dmg to until you hit it yet again with another source of dmg. And then it hit again and you can vortex another time. But depending on the length of your ignite later on you dont wanna hit it more than ones, because ignites doesnt overlap, you just apply a new one that overwrites the one on the monster allrdy (This is end game). While lvling our ignite sucks, so you kinda have to spam :P

Also my account should be open if youre unsure on how to gear. Atm im actually debating to use Vortex, ignite, aoe, cold to fire, fire pen for 5L. As it is alot of fire pen we lose. And then use Controlled Dest for 6th link. Its up to you though.

I hope this clarifies some things, if not, do say so. I will try to the best of my abilities to help :)

Currently 69lvl, vortex + cold to fire + controlled destruction + chance to ignite, also firestorm when channeling scorching ray. With pretty mediocre/shitty gear able to clear early maps. Damage is good, only thing that is lacking is radius of vortex. after 3 labs managed to get 700 combat ES regen at 2.4hp/3.3es. I feel it'll be great after some investment, despite that aoe changes.

Thank you Leeown for answering so quickly!

Some follow up questions please:

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Leeown wrote:

The reason being is, that elemental dmg adds to the initial fire dmg HIT and then the IGNITE it self. So if you have 10% ele dmg you do 10% of that elemental type dmg more on hit, and that makes the ignite stronger, but on top of that you get another 10% on the ignite it self, even after the initial hit scaled the ignite aswell.

Got it. And ignite, as I understand it, is 20% of the initial hit damage per second for 4 seconds (before modifiers)? And Temporal Chains increases this duration by another 40%?

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Leeown wrote:

We cannot use spell dmg the same way, because it only scales the initial hit, and the ignite off the initial hit, so there is no bonus to the ignite from spell dmg other than from you hitting harder.

This isn't what the wiki says, because the "Modifiers to spell damage applies to this skill's damage over time" means that ignites count - according to the Wiki. Additionally the spell damage "double dips" into the Cold degen, which is unaffected by the cold-to-fire conversion and applies as usual. So spell damage seems key to scale - have I got that all right?

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Leeown wrote:

We also can scale the same way with fire and cold dmg. But because we convert to 90% we want +%fire dmg over %cold dmg, as far as I understand.

So here's the rub, and the bit I'm not clear on.

As I understand it, we have three factors:

Initial Hit (Fire)
Ignite from initial hit (Fire) - 20% of initial hit per second for 4 seconds
DoT from Vortex (Cold) - for 3 seconds

And thus, the following damage types affect accordingly:

Spell Damage - scales initial hit, AND scales Ignite, AND scaled Cold DoT
Fire Damage - Scaled initial hit, AND scaled ignite
Cold Damage - scales DoT

Question: Does this also scale initial hit because it is converted? If so, does it therefore ALSO scale the ignite? And if so, isn't this BETTER TO SCALE THAN FIRE?!??!

And then you have area damage, damage over time, etc, which are generic and therefore should apply like spell damage to their respective purposes.

So if someone could please check my thoughts above and then answer the key question about cold damage...?

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Leeown wrote:

Ok, now is where it gets tricky.

Nah it did that already.

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Leeown wrote:

WE do NOT want + flat dmg on anything, so + x-xcold, light or fire dmg to attacks and spell will fuck up Elemental Equilibrium "EE" for reference. Because we use Orb of storm, we want that to be PURE light dmg only.

I got this. In fact, I put "added lightning damage" in a spare socket with my shield charge. >-)

NOTE for new folk: you must avoid elemental damage "to attacks" on rings/gloves etc. You won't see this on Vortex/Orb, but your shield charge will set it off and it will screw your EE.

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Leeown wrote:

This is also why we dont use Avatar of Fire, because that would make your orb do only fire dmg.

...which would also kill the cold DoT. To be clear, my understanding is that the cold DoT still applies because it damage over time is UNAFFECTED BY CONVERSION. So, you lose this if you "do fire damage only".

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Leeown wrote:

EE makes it so that the monster gets ANOTHER -50 fire resist from the moment it takes lightning dmg to until you hit it yet again with another source of dmg. And then it hit again and you can vortex another time.

So this is another problem. Because of the now-90% previously-100% conversion issue, it means that if we use EE and DON'T set up lightning damage first, we are giving mobs a free 25% boost to resistances on BOTH fire AND cold, because our initial hit is now both elements (when before it was just fire). This is a bummer; however, hopefully our damage can scale to the point where white/blue/some rare mobs die anyway, and we can EE for rares/uniques/bosses.

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Leeown wrote:

Atm im actually debating to use Vortex, ignite, aoe, cold to fire, fire pen for 5L. As it is alot of fire pen we lose.

If I was feeling really mean I'd ask how all this is affected by fire pen.

Ok, I'm feeling mean. How is this all affected by fire pen?

Cheers,
A


P.s. Completely separate thought: I am levelling Herald of Ice and Vitality in off-weapons. This is because when we hit hex-proof maps we have quite a lot of reserved mana freed up. These then give us replacement dps/defence options!

So I did some maths on AOE.

No one seems to know what the base AOE of Vortex is, but I think it might be 18 (equivalent to the new RF). Irrespective, the maths below is proportional to increase, and thus base is irrelevant.

It boils down like this:

Amplify - total increase to AOE - 26%.
Blast Radius - total increase to AOE - 18%
Inc AOE lvl 20 - total increase to AOE - 49%

Increase of AOE is converted to Increase of Radius like so:

x*x*pi = Pi R Squared = Area
x*x*pi*(1+y) = increase of AOE due to y, where y is a percentage (e.g. 26% for Amplify means multiply by 1.26)
SQRT((x*x*pi*(1+y)/pi) = Increased Radius, z. So where your base is 10, z is 11.22 for Amplify.
(z-x)/z = increase of radius as a percentage.

Full forumla: %R = (SQRT((x*x*pi*(1+y)/pi)-x)/SQRT((x*x*pi*(1+y)/pi)

where x is your base radius
and y is your increase of AOE
and z is your increase of Radius
and %R is the percentage increase of new Radius
and Pi is 3.1419
(Please forgive the cumbersome equation but I can't display Squared and Sqrt easily here).

Assume base radius of 10 (as above, this is proportional, so you can make this what you want):

Base + amplify = 11.22 = 10.91% increase of RADIUS
Base + BR = 10.86 = 7.94% increase of RADIUS
Base + IAOE = 12.21 = 18.08% increase of RADIUS

As you add more, the benefits diminish steeply:

Base + Amplify + BR = 12 = 16.67% increase of RADIUS
Base + Amplify + BR + IAOE = 13.89 = 28% increase of RADIUS

So, assuming you take Amplify and BR, a level 20 Inc AOE gem gives you 11.35% more increase of radius.

So I won't be bothering with that gem slot then.

is there a reason that nobody suggests picking up essence surge ?