Elemental Penetration.

"

Turn your salt into something useful. Spend that effort helping grow the PvP community instead of bitching about it and maybe you'll feel less shitty about your characters/gameplay/life/whatever it is that makes you so angry.

what makes you think that we didn't? what do you know about pvp community, seriously?

you had a troll cwdt tank ES build now because you grab a 400 pdps bow you think you are pvp'er now? do you know what happened in the past? how many times we mailed Chris, how many times we addressed issues in pvp, some of them got fixed thanks to our efforts. (danzig and i played big part in frost wall fix, icedeal & vhlad made spark got nerfed, ahfack and many others mailed about inquisitor and made it fixed also etc)

do you know what we did in the past to improve pvp community? of course not. you are one of those that starts to think you upgraded yourself from pve to pvp when you become top 20 in pvp ranked.

sorry dude but you are not in the caliber that we can take you serious yet. go play some HoT build maybe we start to take you serious, in a bad way of course.

Selling




Cheers,

Snazzy

Rup, your statement about bow skill being useless is just a salty opinion, you didn't give us an explanation, so it's as good as a troll comment.

"

Márkusz wrote:

Rup, your statement about bow skill being useless is just a salty opinion, you didn't give us an explanation, so it's as good as a troll comment.

unfortunately, as you are an experienced pvp player, i'm quite surprised that you expect me to explain it. it is self explaining itself.

+barrage is really easy to outplay if you are not using a rapid firing skill(that makes barrage + flame dash activate really quick and thats where barrage works perfectly)

vs barrage you can just make circles around your opponent and no arrow can land on you. while your character is bursting arrows you cant move, so that makes you most of the time statinonary, aoe hit and run with a fast character(EA pathfinder) can totally outmicro you. barrage works vs spellcasters and melee and it is good vs bow builds but vs offscreen spells or BV(which is the most viable pvp skill at the moment) it is not the best answer a bow user is looking for. all T1 builds can wreck barrage without even losing a round. lapiz did good before with barrage, but EA players werent having 180 MS, 10 seconds of curse immunity(any flask), dying sun, or rearguard + rumi.

+blast rain is totally useless (its best skill to use in remote mine, i'll tell you why) blast rain has a long delay before it starts to fall down to ground. vs fast targets you can easily get outplayed. probably any BV can wreck blast rain builds just because of that deay.
+then again, because of blast rain's delay, its detonation radius is very very very high. you can almost offscreen shot with blast rain mines when you activate your mines.(rain of arrows does not seek targets as blast rain does for example when detonated)
+rain of arrows can get outplayed with any aegis, zerphi, high dps burst builds(EA, fireball)

what else?

"

Rupenus wrote:

"

Márkusz wrote:

Rup, your statement about bow skill being useless is just a salty opinion, you didn't give us an explanation, so it's as good as a troll comment.

unfortunately, as you are an experienced pvp player, i'm quite surprised that you expect me to explain it. it is self explaining itself.

+barrage is really easy to outplay if you are not using a rapid firing skill(that makes barrage + flame dash activate really quick and thats where barrage works perfectly)

vs barrage you can just make circles around your opponent and no arrow can land on you. while your character is bursting arrows you cant move, so that makes you most of the time statinonary, aoe hit and run with a fast character(EA pathfinder) can totally outmicro you. barrage works vs spellcasters and melee and it is good vs bow builds but vs offscreen spells or BV(which is the most viable pvp skill at the moment) it is not the best answer a bow user is looking for. all T1 builds can wreck barrage without even losing a round. lapiz did good before with barrage, but EA players werent having 180 MS, 10 seconds of curse immunity(any flask), dying sun, or rearguard + rumi.

+blast rain is totally useless (its best skill to use in remote mine, i'll tell you why) blast rain has a long delay before it starts to fall down to ground. vs fast targets you can easily get outplayed. probably any BV can wreck blast rain builds just because of that deay.
+then again, because of blast rain's delay, its detonation radius is very very very high. you can almost offscreen shot with blast rain mines when you activate your mines.
+rain of arrows can get outplayed with any aegis, zerphi, high dps burst builds(EA, fireball)

what else?

None of what you mentioned stops these skills from being effective. Running circles around a barrage player works enough until you have to stop and attack, or if they land a few lucky and powerful shots on you. Barrage is a good skill and should not be overlooked just because of the cheesedick counters you mentioned. It's a powerful skill.

Same with Blast Rain. The delay doesn't stop anyone from being hit, and not everyone can get out of the way before the arrows land. Also, as with any and virtually every AoE skill, the radius of Blast Rain is sometimes big enough that aiming is isn't always necessary. The delay and it's negative effects are negotiable when you have movement skills linked with CWDT and rapid attack speed. I mean this "long delay" is really a fraction of a second lol It MIGHT be enough to make a difference, but not always.

I'll edit this for clarity (aura) and address more points when I get home from work. Typing this shit out on my phone is a fucking nightmare lmao

I didn't play bow skills like at all, and I know you feel the difference from before the nerfs and now, and even without personal experience of playing them, useless is a strong exaggeration.

Those are just some cases, and counters you mentioned for 2 skills, what about the other skills? Having counters, and superior builds in the game is just normal, complaints changed from LA to other stuff, but it won't render bow skills useless. I'm not convinced.

With the nerf to frost wall, attacks made with bows actually are extremely useless at the moment unless you use barrage or blast rain. And this is only because they have gg interaction with T-values.

With mines and traps you can of course use any bow skill but that is because mines and traps are gg no matter what you do with them.

"

lapiz wrote:

With the nerf to frost wall, attacks made with bows actually are extremely useless at the moment unless you use barrage or blast rain. And this is only because they have gg interaction with T-values.

With mines and traps you can of course use any bow skill but that is because mines and traps are gg no matter what you do with them.

Lapiz dropping truth bombs since 2014 ^^

You can still have some funny session in Sarn with LA tho but I wouldn't dare play Bow in 1vs1(actually I wouldn't dare play 1vs1 at all with all the actual cheese).

Elemental penetration is one of the best more damage multipliers, both in pve and pvp. When considering fights against players/mobs with overcapped resists, the penetration gem is so strong that it becomes mandatory.

But like all other straight more damage multipliers, the more damage from elemental penetration, gets reduced according to the pvp damage formula. Unlike mines/traps, damage over time skills, aoe shotgun skills, ...


So imo there is a case for straight up nerfing elemental penetration numbers or for making it less mandatory through a systems change, both in pvp and pve. But nerfing it in pvp and leaving it mandatory in pve, is imo not the way to go because having a mandatory pve gem perform different in pvp, reduces accessibility.

If the mechanics differ between pve and pvp, only players that read about this change (0 in game info and the wiki tends to miss info like this), will know that they need to further differentiate their pve and pvp setups. Only a minority will know about this mechanics change and not everyone of that minority will bother making separate setups. I know accessibility of pvp is already awefully bad, but that's not a good enough reason to allow it to get even worse.

"

RunawayFixer wrote:

Elemental penetration is one of the best more damage multipliers, both in pve and pvp. When considering fights against players/mobs with overcapped resists, the penetration gem is so strong that it becomes mandatory.

But like all other straight more damage multipliers, the more damage from elemental penetration, gets reduced according to the pvp damage formula. Unlike mines/traps, damage over time skills, aoe shotgun skills, ...


So imo there is a case for straight up nerfing elemental penetration numbers or for making it less mandatory through a systems change, both in pvp and pve. But nerfing it in pvp and leaving it mandatory in pve, is imo not the way to go because having a mandatory pve gem perform different in pvp, reduces accessibility.

If the mechanics differ between pve and pvp, only players that read about this change (0 in game info and the wiki tends to miss info like this), will know that they need to further differentiate their pve and pvp setups. Only a minority will know about this mechanics change and not everyone of that minority will bother making separate setups. I know accessibility of pvp is already awefully bad, but that's not a good enough reason to allow it to get even worse.

On point as usual. What do you think about nerfing pen effectiveness just in PvP (50% or whatever is determined to be appropriate) while establishing a hard cap on max res in PvP?