The pathfinder nerf is coming...

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MullaXul wrote:

Es based builds with block. Basically just gear, getting 10-11k ES is really really fucking easy. All downsides of being ES are handled easily and have been for years now. Es builds can heal with zealots or really really fast near instant full recharge if not engaged for just a second or two. Because armor is the weakest of all defenses, you can go Es in PvP and you can't use the excuse...i'm giving up armor,evasion,dodge. Block + Tempest + 10k++++ es pool, zealots/recharge rates along with a mobility skill i.e 4link LW/Whirling blades = top tier shit.

Outside of pathfinder, the ES downsides are not handled that easily.
For stun immunity we just received a really good option with the new ring, as skyforth are too expensive for an average player, and also inferior to the ring in that aspect, chayula takes the whole amulet slot, US too far for ES builds.

Elemental ailments are very important deal with, super long freezes, even smallest ignite stopping recharge. These combined with bleeding, curses, shock take almost all flask slots, and leave little space for active defenses, and also not being permanent, players can lose on effect by pressing too late, or running out of flasks.

ES having no life flask options straight tells the opponent how far they are to dying, and however needing a different playstyle againts it, where you dont need to deal big damage when they run away, any damage that stops ES recharge works.

Block again can be handled well with maximum BCR.

The mobility skills of ES builds/casters are not top tier, whirling blades with only one 1h weapon is slow enough even with IAS roll, and giving up shield slot for dual wield is not worth it. LW only gets inline with invested mobility skills with the helm enchants, meaning you give up strong utility option there, and literally only can be used with builds that don't pick up any duration on tree. Melee builds investing into attack speed both increases DPS and get fast mobility skills, while casters investing into it only get the mobility, and still need cast speed separately for DPS.

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Márkusz wrote:

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MullaXul wrote:

Es based builds with block. Basically just gear, getting 10-11k ES is really really fucking easy. All downsides of being ES are handled easily and have been for years now. Es builds can heal with zealots or really really fast near instant full recharge if not engaged for just a second or two. Because armor is the weakest of all defenses, you can go Es in PvP and you can't use the excuse...i'm giving up armor,evasion,dodge. Block + Tempest + 10k++++ es pool, zealots/recharge rates along with a mobility skill i.e 4link LW/Whirling blades = top tier shit.

Outside of pathfinder, the ES downsides are not handled that easily.
For stun immunity we just received a really good option with the new ring, as skyforth are too expensive for an average player, and also inferior to the ring in that aspect, chayula takes the whole amulet slot, US too far for ES builds.

Elemental ailments are very important deal with, super long freezes, even smallest ignite stopping recharge. These combined with bleeding, curses, shock take almost all flask slots, and leave little space for active defenses, and also not being permanent, players can lose on effect by pressing too late, or running out of flasks.

ES having no life flask options straight tells the opponent how far they are to dying, and however needing a different playstyle againts it, where you dont need to deal big damage when they run away, any damage that stops ES recharge works.

Block again can be handled well with maximum BCR.

The mobility skills of ES builds/casters are not top tier, whirling blades with only one 1h weapon is slow enough even with IAS roll, and giving up shield slot for dual wield is not worth it. LW only gets inline with invested mobility skills with the helm enchants, meaning you give up strong utility option there, and literally only can be used with builds that don't pick up any duration on tree. Melee builds investing into attack speed both increases DPS and get fast mobility skills, while casters investing into it only get the mobility, and still need cast speed separately for DPS.

Maybe it is just me but it is a lovely sight to see an overconfident novice crushed like an ant

Even if cost was debateable skyforths exist. The rings fine and you also get chance to avoid stun by a % plus the passive chance to avoid it when you have es. Unwavering stance on an es character isn't terrible either especially with block. You can reach it and convert passives around it with jewels. Cast when stunned linked to something that pushes people off you, moves you...ya that's a thing. Bleed, ignites and other degens obviously halt recharge..you can still dispel them, be immune to them or pick up recharge isn't interrupted if it started. Lightning warp is a legit movement skill, if its too slow or clunky on your char its because you have shit movement speed, cast rate or poor links. Mana flasks offer the longest durations in the game, so being immune to anything via flask use + duration is not a problem either. Like I said, I know the importance of a health flask. Point is es in PvPis better then es in pvm, because of what works in pvp and what really doesn't. Let's not pretend there aren't es builds that face tank high HP builds....literally stand in melee range holding attack and lasting as long or longer then a HP build with 5 flasks.

Plus let's not make the argument bcr > block. At least in caster form youhave tempest and several other great auto defenses that actually scale with your main attack. There's a trade off for everything and at the end of the day I've played many builds, not even optimized I can tell you es is good. After seeing optimized es builds putting in work in PvP can't be ignored either. For years ll pa es casters have been consistently doing good, ci melee and casters also have their benefits. We all give up something for something, can't have it all. Again, I know all the angles...I'm not your usual shit spewer.

On the subject of shit spewers, It may just be me but I get this vibe from Lapiz. That irl lil dickweed pussy vibe. The one where outside of his immediate circle of like minded nad lickers, everyone wants to step on his throat. Could just be me, I dunno.........see ya.

I can say from experience that I struggled with stuns before I had skyforth. Even with stacking multiple stun avoidance layers, which are multiplicative, and also stun recovery, fast hitting skills can stunlock. Increasing the stun threshold is essential for ES players, and the ring is the best option for that atm.

The ES builds that out-tank HP builds are either invested tanks with regen, which can be countered easily, and those builds usually have relatively low damage, or block builds that are not handled with sufficient amount of BCR. Aegis is another layer on top of block again, so if you meant that as part of block builds, please mention it separately, because the statements apply in different extent for simple block builds and Aegis builds.

Against block there is at least the option of reducing it by up to 66%, even if it's not available for everyone, HP build's dodge which is stacked with similar investment cost, can be reduced by only 30%.

For me ES defenses seem weaker than HP build defenses, but strictly thinking about defenses only, because ES builds get better offense options, which brings the two more inline.

Tempest shield was really ridiculous with pre-nerf Inquisitors, which is now gone, and again it is part of offense, and not defense, which I meant to mainly compare here.