The pathfinder nerf is coming...

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awetZ020 wrote:

Es being the best defense of the 3 should also be looked into.

Compared to armour and evasion (damage mitigation), or in relation to hp? ES would be considered hp, as is life. They're technically in different categories.

Going an ES build, you're forgoing possibilities for damage mitigation(armour/evasion), whereas life builds can incorporate them.

ES CI is of course very strong, which is the main reason I'd say people go that route. I don't believe there's many life/es hybrid builds in pvp, although I may be wrong. Some aegis builds?

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Firebrand76 wrote:

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awetZ020 wrote:

Es being the best defense of the 3 should also be looked into.

Compared to armour and evasion (damage mitigation), or in relation to hp? ES would be considered hp, as is life. They're technically in different categories.

Going an ES build, you're forgoing possibilities for damage mitigation(armour/evasion), whereas life builds can incorporate them.

ES CI is of course very strong, which is the main reason I'd say people go that route. I don't believe there's many life/es hybrid builds in pvp, although I may be wrong. Some aegis builds?

With the way regen works, the bigger the life pool the more effective it is.

The bigger the pool, the more effective you are against hard hitting stuff too.

Armor doesnt mitigate elemental damage. With ES, you still get capped resists. The best way to scale most damage is to scale it with elemental. Hatred. Added fire. Herald of ash. Phys to lightning. Taste of Hate. Vinktar. Etc.

Evasion is just RNG. But worse than block. And block can be used with ES builds anyway.

As CI you're completely immuned to chaos. You also don't have to rely on life flasks which leaves your options opened for more unique flasks.

So you're looking at SUPER HEAVY investment in life to get 10k (with a legacy kaom) or more realistically around 7-8k. Or next to no investment in ES to get 15k.


There's a reason everyone that CAN go ES just goes ES.

Can you imagine playing a melee and getting a shield that gives you 600 life? Or an amulet and 2 rings that give you 60% total life along with a 500 life helm.

Kinda odd that people who invest most of their points in life because they need to take damage get half the life of people who can sit back with range.

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Simplesim45 wrote:

So you're looking at SUPER HEAVY investment in life to get 10k (with a legacy kaom) or more realistically around 7-8k. Or next to no investment in ES to get 15k.

That's just not true. There is not that big of an investment difference between 10k life with leg kaoms, and 15k CI in a well rounded build. By well rounded CI I mean not only focusing ES on every single gear piece, because most builds need key pieces to work where there is little to no ES, and you need to sacrifice ES for damage or utility at some places.

I agree tho that however the result is better PVE-wise with ES based builds, that's what I'm also doing on almost all of my characters, as in PVE leech makes ES almost equal to life pools in terms of avoiding sudden death, the one-shot scenarios.

PVP-wise life point vs ES point, life points worth more because life flasks can store a huge amount of life, if they are appliable (not getting actually oneshot), making the EHP of life based builds higher than ES based. In pvp 10k life is tankier than 15k ES unless getting literally one-shot, which are the problematic must-fix builds of pvp.

290ES gloves 40ex
490ES helmet 55ex
900 ES chest 36ex
550 ES shield with some spell damage + crit spell 55ex

for 180ex you can get 15k ES gear.

leg kaoms is 270ex nowadays.

i think kaoms should be default +800 health

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Simplesim45 wrote:

So you're looking at SUPER HEAVY investment in life to get 10k (with a legacy kaom) or more realistically around 7-8k. Or next to no investment in ES to get 15k.

I don't know about that. I have 12 offensive/damage passive nodes (11 minion and MI) and 3 offensive/damage jewels on the tree and only have 12k es, at level 91. Conversely I have 25 es nodes and 2 es jewels. I'd say that's a pretty heavy investment in defense overall.

Taking Unwavering, Indominable, and regen also chewed up a lot of points.

I have good but not gg mirrored gear though.

720 es chest
356 es +2 minion helm
526 es shield
226 es gloves
130 es rainbow boots
20% inc es ring
Dream frag ring (very often needed so it's usually on)
Lazhwar amulet
Belt of the deceiver

My setup may not be optimal but it's the best I've been able to come up with so far.

i had 17k ES with my CI BV. those were my items and i gave you the prices i paid. BV was very boring to play and that build can only offer ego masturbation. so im not using that anymore.

I don't like Mathil, but I do like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUSaOKY877k

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dalb3 wrote:

I don't like Mathil, but I do like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUSaOKY877k

Seen it already but he is spot on, 75% (or more) of the shaper kills will be made by pathfinder BV builds copy pasted from the forum like 75% of uber atziri kills were made by BF Mine poison builds copy pasted from the forum.

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Firebrand76 wrote:

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Simplesim45 wrote:

So you're looking at SUPER HEAVY investment in life to get 10k (with a legacy kaom) or more realistically around 7-8k. Or next to no investment in ES to get 15k.

I don't know about that. I have 12 offensive/damage passive nodes (11 minion and MI) and 3 offensive/damage jewels on the tree and only have 12k es, at level 91. Conversely I have 25 es nodes and 2 es jewels. I'd say that's a pretty heavy investment in defense overall.

Taking Unwavering, Indominable, and regen also chewed up a lot of points.

I have good but not gg mirrored gear though.

720 es chest
356 es +2 minion helm
526 es shield
226 es gloves
130 es rainbow boots
20% inc es ring
Dream frag ring (very often needed so it's usually on)
Lazhwar amulet
Belt of the deceiver

My setup may not be optimal but it's the best I've been able to come up with so far.

So realistically, you're missing about:
150 ES on chest.
50 ES on helm.
100 ES on boots

That's 300 flat ES which would put you at about 13k or more. That's keeping in mind all your node investment for keystones that are really far from your starting point and nowhere near the same investment in ES that someone would put in life on a life build to end up with much less.

I agree with Markus tho that if you don't account for 1-shots, the use of life flasks makes up for most of the difference... Super high damage is all over the place right now. That's just the reality.

Also where the hell have you been? I haven't seen you on a while.

There's two things that stand out above the rest in PvP.

Hp based builds with evasion and dodge...minimum. Maximum they benefit from block as well. Why? Because armor will forever be pretty crap in PvP and evasion though rng actually has a purpose as does dodge/block. Life flasks, little life regen and flask nodes.

Es based builds with block. Basically just gear, getting 10-11k ES is really really fucking easy. All downsides of being ES are handled easily and have been for years now. Es builds can heal with zealots or really really fast near instant full recharge if not engaged for just a second or two. Because armor is the weakest of all defenses, you can go Es in PvP and you can't use the excuse...i'm giving up armor,evasion,dodge. Block + Tempest + 10k++++ es pool, zealots/recharge rates along with a mobility skill i.e 4link LW/Whirling blades = top tier shit.

That's why everyone plays these things. I'm not saying they are light years better then something like a high hp/regen build but they have glaring strengths and price per pound are very good because of what people need in PvP (or what actually works) versus what they feel they need in PvM.

Pathfinder just adds layers to the above. Having ridiculous synergy with flasks, placement on the tree etc..etc.. I use juggernaut for only 1 passive and that's to avoid being slowed. Pathfinder takes that concept, amplifies it and then some.